So I had a thought over in another thread.

The advent have always ahd trouble dealing with hard targets such as starbases as they have no strong anti-module ship such as the TEC's Ogrov or the Vasari's Orky.  What if guidance were instead reworked into an anti-structure ability?  This would certainly fit as the Revelation is meant to be a heavy assault capitalship.

Perhaps something similar to the Cielo's Designate Target ability, but with a long cast range(could be used at a  safe distance to expedite bombers wearing down the starbase)  and only able to target structures.  Something to help the advent destroy starbases earlier in the game in a more timely fashion.

Well it certainly wouldn't really improve Revelation's fleet synergy at all, but it would improve it's utility as a siege-aid.  If some fleet synergy were desired I suppose the ability could be allowed to target ships in addition to structures, but perhaps give a substantially lower damage boost(perhaps half the boost it gives against structures?).  But that would be an afterthought- the main purpose of the ability would to give the advent a new tool for assaulting heavy defenses.  It's also worth noting that any sort of focusfire ability would synergize nicely with Reverie.

Perhaps a straight damage buff isn't the best way, butt his could be the perfect opportunity to give the advent some effective means of assaulting hard targets.  Another aternative could be to replace the current cooldown reduction with a large weapon range boost to nearby allied ships, allowing longer range ships to bombard a starbase from outside it's weapons range.  This route would also provide more fleet synergy then the first option.

Also I like the idea regarding having calirvoyance reveal mines- while mines aren't very strong so it would be a fairly minor actual buff, I love the thematic ramifications: it makes sense and lends it'self well to the revelation's purpose as a siege ship.

True to some extent-

Vengeance from the rapture affects star-bases. When u use steal/transfer anti-matter from disciples then you have an unlimited supply of anti-matter to run this ability non stop. 

Perhaps I'm missing something but....how exactly does vengeance help the advent assault enemy starbases?  Sounds like you're talking about defending starbases whereas I was discussing the Advent's issues with hard targets such as enemy starbases as compared to the other races.

dmg retaliation: Vengeance targets the unit recieving the most damage (as i was made to believe) just like how reverie and detonate pick caps when available etc. 

Now when your assaulting a star-base head on with desciples , a halcyon and rapture its actually going to go down fast if your going retaliate 130%/200% of the damage its inflicting on your specific ships. 

Its always safe to rush a starbase without upgrades with this strategy..they go boom within seconds. 

again make sure you have researched steal anti-matter to replenish the rapture

Souns interesting, but are you sure this actually works well?  The starbase can be attacking 4/5 of your ships per bank and can likely bring 2 banks to bear on your fleet.  You can only cast Vengeance on one ship due to the long cooldown.  So you are reflecting only something like 10-12.5% of the damage the starbase is throwing at you.

Also since vengeance damage goes through armor/shield mitigation, even at 200% reflection a starbase is only likely to actually suffer about 47% of the damage it deals(assuming 65% shield mitigation & 8 armor).  Which means Vengeance will only cause the Starbase to suffer about 4.7-5.9% of the damage the starbase is dealing to your fleet.

Put another way, if the starbase has weapons 2 upgrade(best case scenario for damage reflected) it can probably be expected to have something like 120 DPS per bank.  Assuming the ship you cast 200% vengeance on has something like 50% shield mitigation & 2 armor, the actual damage the starbase will deal to it's self per second is 54 DPS(after the starbase's mitigation about 12.69 DPS).  That doesn't sound like much of a solution to dealing with hard targets like starbases to me, especially being that the starbase with be dealing about 20x as much damage to your fleet the whole time.

Moreover, maxing Vengeance would require not putting points in vertigo or Concentration Aura, both of which seem to be far more broadly useful to me.

If I'm missing something, by all means point it out, but it feels to me like even just looking at the Rapture's abilities Concentration Aura would be better for attacking a starbase then Vengeance(that same 54 DPS can be obtained from max rank concentration aura with about 10 squads of bombers and could be  used from outside the starbase's weapons range).

You aren't...he's just trolling, I assure you...

I'm a bit bad at picking up on those sorts of things once I'm in math-mode 

i can assure you it works very well--(mitigation and armor aside)

Just tell the devs to up its effect if you think there fooling you.

Call it: Vengeance is not really as effect against vasari starbases(structure)

Text area: It does next to no damage when trying to retaliate a starbases assault.

Vasari starbase:

Assault Systems (3 levels): Adds more weapons to the Orkulus. All Orkulus starbases start just with pulse gun-based attacks when they're first built (anti-heavy damage). The first upgrade will add "disintegration" weapons that are particularly effective against larger targets like capital ships, structures, or other starbases. The second level will add general-purpose phase missile weapons. The third level will increase the damage of all existing weapons systems and allow it to target more enemy units at one time.

Cost: 2575 310 325
Build Time: Varies seconds.
Hull:	3000
Armor:	6
Shields:	2000
Average Pulse Gun Damage:	149

I suppose you could always buff the percentage.., 100/200/300/400% or some such thing...

Took them years to finally fix the domina-i hope there open minded about it this year like they are to the many suggestions coming in

They changed superweapons, so maybe...

Riddle King did not mention this, but do not approach a TEC starbase to use the vengeance strategy. It could have red button, against the TEC play safe and Macro out bombers.

As for anti-SB, starfish could really use tweaks in this regard.  Right now they are optimal against someone building a turret farm, something generally only done by AIs.  Against a single strong target bombers are better.  A halfway point would be a good idea (ie fire at less targets, but more damage) IMO.

But yes, Advent's cap ship lineup has always been flaky leading to carrier cap spam (and not just because SC were OP).  BATTLEcruisers with too much support, not enough battle.  Their new cap is a step in the right direction, but that just means you'll see the Revelation that much less.

Since there is no way to reduce the number of targets per bank, I added a beam attack to them via an ability.  Not as powerful as Orgovs, but at least that way they aren't completely useless against starbases.

You do realize there's lines in ship entity files that control targets per bank?  Check right after the weapons.

Changing that can sometimes screw up how the weapon effects occur...for example, if you give an LRM the ability to target 2 things per bank, only one side of it will fire missiles...

That could probably be fixed in the mesh file, but still is a little problematic...don't know about the starfish....

That doesn't mean you can modify it at runtime.

No, but you're making a mod that modifies the starfish to be more effective against single targets.  Couldn't you just drop the target count and buff the damage?

You could, but that would fundamentally change it into a demi-orgov.  The point is that it is able to assault mass encampments, something the Orgov isn't capable of.  If it had the ability to shut down a few of it's bank targets for a while to focus on fewer targets, that would be best.  You just can't do that via modding, leastways, not at runtime which would be better than shrinking it's target count IMO.

You might be able to via a targeted channeling ability that can last indefinitely and has no cooldown...while the ability is active, all the ship's weapons are disabled, but it applies x damage every t seconds to its target through a periodic action...

This essentially is as if it is FFing on a single target...you would to probably have a weapons effect occur so it actually looks like it's shooting...

Not perfect, but I think it's doable...

That's basically what I did to it in my mod.  Gave it a singular beam attack.

what if the revelation had an ability/aura that boosted the dmg all weapon banks in the area do by an amount proportional to the number of unfired weapon banks?

basically, it makes ships that shoot in multiple directions do their full damage (or nearly so) when they are not using all of their weapons. This would be useful for adjudicators, illuminators, flak, corvettes, and capital ships.

..  That...  That..  Advent damage output would probably nearly double