Is there goign to be a EWOM v1.4?

Frogboy said recently (after the release of 1.3) that he wants to get 1.4 done before the FE beta begins. That's the most we know, but it seems likely that they are working on 1.4 still.

Yes.

Damn it Brad, stop being so vague!

That's not vague, it's direct. the original question only asked if anyone knew, he never asked "can we haz E:WoM 1.4?" (though i really expected frogboy to know the implied followup question).

I think ZehDon was actually making a joke. Bad mistake there 

Ahhh the professor. He's the best. "If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angrydome!"

1.4 is said to have a fixed prestige system!

I believe; from a previous post, that Frogboy is looking at rewriting the tactical battle AI. If so, I am looking forward to AI Sovereigns using magic during tactical battles!

I think Frogboy was talking about FE. Not WoM.

FE is where most AI work will be focused. We had a long thread about how much more we cared about FE than WoM. WoM is kind of a first attempt that didn't quite meet its potential. FE is the younger, better looking sibling.

The OP was clearly asking about EWOM and not about EFE.

... now let's all start whining for the 1.4 release date and changelog

v1.4 will have significant AI updates (otherwise it will have to go into another update).

It is irrelevant to us whether everyone moves to Fallen Enchantress or not.  There is a principle here and that is WOM is still not at a place where we feel ready to just let it go into "maint." mode.

As some may recall, the same was true of Galactic Civilizations (a lot of people think things started with GalCiv II).  But GalCiv I required a full blown free expansion pack (remember that anyone -- "Galactic Civilizations: Expanded Universe")? Before we felt it was good enough to let it go into maint mode prior to an actual non-free expansion.

The difference, of course, was back then, no one had high expectations so GalCiv I's relative...crumminess didn't create the kind of nerd rage we have today (though with the difference being that GalCiv I's AI was a lot better).

AI and more Magic spells would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for caring! 

Of course, let's keep the denial mode and blame the "raging nerds" who are actually "nerds" enough to be your customers.

Let's conveniently overlook the fact that the product you sold for full price to those nerds didn't even offer a 10% percent of what was advertised, and that the surviving 10% of the intended features never worked anyway.

That's really a good place to be to start taking it on us. I never regretted the purchase as I really, consciously wanted to support a developer who at least tried to breathe new life into a genre I care about. For the same reason I didn't ask for a refund when it was possible. Now with this and all the other displays of denial we've been exposed to lately I'm seriously starting to regret it (and not for the 50$ or 60$ or whatever it was, that I can live without, thankfully) 

Oh wah. 

Feel free to go away and never come back.

As a nerd, I know when to pick my battles. You apparently don't.  If you played GalCiv I v1.0 then you might have a point. You obviously didn't. My point was that NEW games (feel free to name the last brand new PC strategy game of signficant scope to come out as in v1.0) often have their share of problems. Galactic Civilizations 1.0 for Windows was not a masterpiece to put it bluntly.  It took a free expansion pack to get it to the point where we were happy with it.  I believe WOM was weaker than GalCiv 1.0 but similarly, people who bought WOM 1.0 are getting FE for free as well.

I took the "nerd rage" comment as funny.  I don't think Brad had any mal intent nor was he was trying to deny the non-wonderfulness of EWOM.  Give a frog a break.

Speaking of nerd rage tho, where is my freakin FE dev diary?

I appreciate the fact that Brad is still taking the time to get it right. Or at least to a place where he's happy with it going into "maint" mode. I'll admit, for a while there, I was worried that they were happy with 1.3.

Not too many companies will continue to work on a game like WoM with the beating it's taken. Even when giving away the expansion away for free (two for those who bought it early enough), they're still doing what they can to fix WoM.

I for one would like to thank them.

Thanks guys (and gals).

I know my "rights", thanks.

It's you the one who's missing the point, anyway. New franchises never get a clean start, that's true. They come with flaws of all kinds, but gamers will still fall in LOVE with games that have a SOUL. For those, we have all the patience in the world, we get through the frustrating parts, and a sequel that improves on the strenghts while removing some of the flaws is just icing on the cake. First entries of succesful franchises are loved for what they did right and what they introduced. And players still play them. WoM is not there. WoM doesn't have a soul. It doesn't even have a single "strenght" that I can mention.

Can you take a step back and honestly say that one can have actual *FUN* while playing WoM? Let's not start listing again all that's wrong with it, it is too tiresome. The point is, you're *still* not seeing it. One day it's the engine's fault, the next day it's us nerds, with our skewed reactions and expectations.

You should be thankful to customers who try to put things in perspective, instead of "inviting" them to leave for good. Maybe if you listened you could still save FE. But stay assured, unlike you do, I'll be taking your suggestion into serious consideration.

Well, Brad realized that weakness, as he got the guy from FFH on board, and hired a writer to help with that.

The funny thing is that I felt the GalCiv games had a soul, so I was really disappointed in that aspect of EWOM (among other things). 

One thing I've realized now, is that the requirements for a single-player strategy game for me to enjoy it are

1) It must have a soul

2) It must have competent AI

I'm pretty sure #1 will be done, I'm not certain on #2, but Brad's good at AI, so I'm sure a good effort will be made.

I do have to say this, with FE being a free XP to the WOM folks, I don't think WOM has to get in decent shape for folks to feel satisfied, provided FE is satisfying.  How many people actually bought this game after the free FE offer ended- my guess is probably 10-20% at most.

Agreed.

Tactical summoning spells that using existing creatures would be relatively easy to add. The key though, is to have the AI use them in a coordinated manner.

Spell Suggestions; perhaps a new Nature Spell Book,

1. Summon Wolf (level 1)
2. Summon Wolf Pack (level 3) - Unit of 8 wolves
3. Summon Wolf Horde (level 5) - Pack of 16 wolves - SA: Unit must resist or flee in fear
4. Summon Dire Bear
5. Summon Spider Swarm - SA: Defender can't move (but can attack) unless it resists
6. Heat Metal - (Fire) - Defender armed with light or heavy plate armor suffer -10 penalty to AC as they throw off their burning hot metal armor.
7. First strike (defending unit makes first strike in combat unless attacker resist
8. Spell Shield (Tactical Level 3) Increaes Resistance of Defending Unit to Magic Spells
9. Greater Spell Shield (Tactical Level 5) Increases resistanct of all Defending Units to Magic Spells

I suggest a nature book as it would be comparitively easy to program the AI to take advantage of tactical summoning spells, and it would present a different challenge to players that are used to facing an AI that continually casts Spell Blast.

i.e.

AI #1 Strategy: Spell Blast, Spell Blast, Spell Blast

AI #2 Strategy: Random Summoning Spell, Random Summoning Spell, Random Summoning Spell

AI #3 Strategy:

1. If Enemy Uses Magic > Then Cast Greater Spell Shield (if Available)
2. If Enemy has Archers > Then Cast Wind Shield (if Available)
3. If Powerful Enemy Army > Then cast Wolf Horde (if known)
4. If Powerful Enemy Army in Plate Armor > Then Cast Heat Metal (if Known)
5. If Enemy is weak and units are close together > Cast Spell Blast (Radius of 2)
6. If Enemy Units are spread out > Cast Flaming Arrow (strikes 1 unit)

Doubt that Froggy is still reading this thread, but I think the game has a soul. It just came in the form of a book. I read the book and it was actually good. It provides so much lore and depth. I remember Froggy telling us that alot of this game is something he has been imagining for awhile. Now, mind you very little of that lore made it into the game, but I know how difficult it can be to try and make something contain such an epic story when the core game is going to hell in a handbasket. The soul got left out because they tried to make a campaign mode. We all know that even GalCiv2 didn't really work as that kind of game.

They should have put the lore into the quest system. The quests should be storytellers and give significant goals to players that connect with an overarching story. That is what would have given it the soul young mastroangry is speaking of. Hindsight I know, lets just keep looking forward, allowing the past to just be a sort of guide for FE. 

P.S. WoM is still fun. IMHO it came with the only thing I really wanted at release. That is, a really good modification and editing system. Better than the well intentioned editors we got for Twilight of the Arnor. To me, that is what WoM is all about.

Maybe this is going to rain on your parade, but I  do have fun playing WoM. In fact, I wish I could be playing it now (I had to move my gaming box to my new small business to help save on costs).

Yeah, the AI is certainly in need of some work. And I've seen some graphical bugs. And I do wonder about the pacing of research (new spells seem to come too quickly, while tech research seems too slow...I'm in a 700+ turn game and still haven't unlocked archers). But I totally dig everything else about the game.

Frankly, if the AI can get up to par, I could see myself playing this game for a long, long time. Well, maybe not, since I'm getting FE and the 2nd expansion for free....but without those, I could.

Can you mod the game into something good then? Haha

But I just lost so much respect in Stardock as company, if Frogboy can come in here and blatantly tell a customer who is calling him out on faults to not be a customer anymore. The is one, awful business practice and two it is a cop out. Like he was saying, I am not explaining why they are in denial and I know 'blah, blah, blah doesn't make money off games.' but if he is doing this on a game what does it say about everything else as a company. If you disagree with us we don't want you as a customer, and you guys can defend them all you want but you know the truth of the matter. If we held Game Makers to the same standards as say, Auto Makers then they wouldn't release pieces of crap....

Denial is subjective. By one perspective you could say that Mastroego is in denial about the problems behind WoM coming out halfbaked. Attacking Frogboy every time he comments on the forum is not going to give us any extra peeks at the new game or what they are doing for WoM. It wasn't disagreeing that caused him to say that. I think it may have been Mastroego's demeanor and general lack of courtesy that sparked Frog's comment. 

I like the automaker analogy though obviously I see it more like this:

We bought a car from Cardock Motors. The car was a lemon due to its new design and lack of resources. Everyone that bought the car is provided with a new car within 2 years and a promise to continue to fix the lemon until it is functional. 

That seems a little more fair than what most automakers would do. Now reduce the analogy to a 50 dollar game and you are only out a small sum.  I spend more than that on coffee in a month. The reason we don't hold them to that standard is because cars are very expensive and functionality saves lives. Video games just make life a little more bearable. People like you are why people like me play games. 

Also, Frogboy's point was about GalCiv 1.0 and its similarity to WoM 1.0. Seems like his company bounced back from GalCiv 1.0's issues. Its entirely possible that this game will too. The issue really is about nerd rage if you ask me.