Me too, and I remember things quite differently.

And I say you're a hypocrite because this is the same elitism you claim to be arguing against.  And you can't even see it....

And from my experience - yeah - people who play allrandom games typically were more skilled than people in ap games.  It scares away the bad players, for the most part (except the newbs who don't know what ar is, obviously)

Skilled as in completely mastered a single hero?  No.  Skilled as in they knew the map, they knew the items, they knew the heroes, they knew to run, they knew how to gank, they knew when to push, etc?  Yes, far more skilled in those areas.  Going random indicates you have experience, if nothing else.

And nothing forces you to join them.  I don't understand people who argue against something other people want that doesn't affect them personally.

Again, what do you mean by "value"?  Why is there more value in a game where everyone picks their heroes?  What value is there in playing at all?  You're playing to have fun, assumedly.

You don't know it's NOT the reason. Correlation != !Causation either.

I seriously doubt this. You just picked a fight and now your only real investment is in your desire to win. I know, because that's how I am too. You don't really think that somehow the community who prefers regular, non-AR games will be negatively effected because of some wild assumption that AR players are going to think they are better people than non-AR players.

.... how is a random game forced? You join a custom game that says it's random, then it's your damn choice. Forced... seriously? Insanity born from stubborness.

Yup, you have a point here. But random games do have value, because those who play it enjoy having to be resourceful and working with what they have, as opposed to planning things out. I like both times of games, personally.

Except that the people who join a random game are going to join because they at least BELIEVE it is going to increase their fun.

So... All and all, pretty dumb arguments here.

Just one thing I want to add against all-random games. They can divide the community, so it would be better for me to wait until the game grows a bit more before doing this.

/signed

Just to throw this out there- it is possible to write a coherent all inclusive response to someone without having to single out and address every sentence in their reply.  Not only is it possible, occasionally it is preferable.

The point of random (to me) is a test of skill. There's something fun and challenging about being tossed a random hero and thrown into the fire. It can be a lot of fun because the game does not come down to X heros vs Y counters.

Back to the thread, I think a random mode would be a lot of fun.

Preferable when they are saying the same thing over and over, not when they are making multiple points in one reply or when multiple replies are being adressed at once. Writing an all inclusive response to the above would create an overly long paragraph that would be difficult and uncomfortable to read and understand, or multiple replies to keep things clean.

Anyways, on topic. I think random games would be difficult because most people focus on 1 or 2 demigods, few people if any actually take the time to master all 8 of them. So if someone has bad luck and gets stuck with a DG they're unfamiliar with then they're pretty much screwed if the same thing doesn't happen to the enemy.

You know technically if a host wanted to, -ar is already available.

When you first join a Custom Game, you're assigned a Random Demigod that you have to manually change to switch, there's also a message in the chat window that notifies everyone when someone picks something else.

If a host wanted to enforce a random game, he could just put it in the title and make everyone play the DG they get assigned randomly, and if they change it, tell them to change back or be kicked.

It's messy and inefficient, but if people are really that desperate for ar, the option is there.

This is actually why I love random. If i'm going to be invested in playing the game for the next few years? Like I have been with DotA since I got WC3? I'm going to want to learn ALL of the demigods. First to maximize my own enjoyment of the game through variety. Second to learn exactly what they are or are capable of doing at any given time, in any given situation.

I and my friends are not, and have likely never been, so highly skilled as to need to leave the public pick-up games and get arranged ones with more skilled opponents. We're perfectly entertained getting our asses kicked and shouting noob back and forth. Our enjoyment of the game isn't such that we even take it seriously enough to worry about planning, practicing, and executing whole-team winning strategies.

So, random's just right for us.

And, if random is an option, why would all-random NOT be an option? WickedBear, you seem to be concerned that the introduction of an -AR would be a detriment to the community you'd be forced to play in. I can see that. You definitely don't want to play with guys like me and my friends. We're probably not on your level? But we'll get such a laugh out of griefing the shit out of you, Even while losing. Especially while winning. That's how we have fun. Terrible, huh?

Guess what, though. That's a large part of the fun for a large part of the community. If the -random option gets put in, you will inevitably see people doing forced -AR just based on game title in the custom games list. Why force these hosts to have to cycle through any number of less than cooperative players just to get six who are agreeable and competent enough to make their -Random individually. Just let it be a damn setting.

If you don't like it, don't join. The people who do like it? You don't like playing with them anyway. That's clear. And you're bothered that you even have to hear from them? Give the community some time to grow. You'll eventually get a 1337 little niche somewhere where the rest of you 1337 dewdz can talk strat and play the serious business games. And you can talk about how noob those -AR people are for calling you noob when they're the noobs for calling you a noob.

noob.

Ha, touche! You make a good point. I personally just find the idea of mastering all the DG a bit daunting, especially since I'm not to fond of generals.

But then people could see the match up before the game starts, and will just leave if they don't like it.  The surprise is the key.

Yeah, that's the point.  You'd only get people who know how to play everything.  (And also usually have a general mastery of the game)

*Sigh* I wish people would actually learn how to read my posts, instead of putting words in my mouth .

Lets say you have a person who is used to playing the QoT(person #1) and another person who is used to playing the UB (person #2). If #1 got stuck with the Rook and #2 got lucky and was chosen to be the UB, who do you think would win? That's what I was saying. Where in the hell did I suggest that you would get matched only with people who mastered the game?

Bah, now I know how my highschool teachers feel. Teaching snarky know-it-alls how to read.

I don't really see that any random is needed. 

All random is just plain bad/boring. And if you want to random your DG you can just roll a die ~~

What i would like to have, that is not really related to this thread much, is for the opposing team to not be able to see what dg i have chosen.

I didn't say that was what you were saying.  I'm saying that the point you touched on is exactly why I like ar.

The people you just mentioned WOULDN'T PLAY allrandom, obviously.

If you went random that wouldn't matter.

join a game... play whatever hero is selected for you when you enter. Problem solved.

You really think so? Noobs play multiplayer without practicing in single player. Why not random?

And sorry about the previous comment. I thought you were being sarcastic. It's really hard to tell over the internet and I jumped the gun.

Don't understand why a random option wasn't included at launch. AR games meh, they're popular but after about 1000 of them it gets a bit old. I still play them when I have to (no one joining RD/SD). I'd be fine if some sort of AR was possible. But at the very least a personal random should be possible.

The End

Not even close to the same thing. If people can see my hero they can plan accordingly beforehand. Also takes the fun out of it if I know before the game starts.

Close your eyes.

  I still believe that randomization should NOT be implimented. I favor the japanese way of thinking, where it's quite alright to choose one thing and show that you are good at just that one thing. Playing random doesn't make you look better or more intensive of a player. It's a self gradication tool that the other players you are against don't exactly enjoy. It's not a very reasonable thing, and frankly it's quite rude.

How bout no? I've seen zero credible arguments against at the very least having a personal random option.

It was a joke, relax.

Here is a great arguement:

Randomization is a self gradification tool that does not improve the quality of the game.

The game itself is a self gratification tool. You're playing to enjoy yourself, aren't you?

Logic snap!