A step in the right direction

from Elemental Forums

After I saw what Arcen Games did in AI wars, I wondered why more developers don't adopt the same approach, and try to design a game where the computer plays according to the same rules as the human player, only to fail again and again. Most classic games like Civ5, Master of Magic, Endless Legend, all Elemental games, etc. have AI that cannot really formulate any sensible plan on the strategic level. It can pretend to compete only after being given secret cheating bonuses, so it can mass troops faster than the player to compensate for its inability to utilize them properly. But the sense of challenge quickly turns sour when the player realizes that in a game where one side is allowed to cheat, all rewards are hollow. You do not win, because you overcame your opponent's strategy with better one, but because your opponent decided to conjure only 50 units out of thin air, instead of say 100, and it was still beatable. But it the AI would decide to cheat out 100 units, you would lose and could do nothing about it. 

 

However, when it's explicitly said that the AI plays according to different (but transparent and clearly defined) rules, the game can become fair again. 

 

I love the concept of AI progress in AI wars. You fight a pangalactic AI empire that controls virtually unlimited resources, and how much of it is dedicated to fight your tiny insurgency depends on how much you annoy the AI. 

 

I hope we will see something similar in the Sorcerer King. 

24,673 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

Now this is an excellent idea, I like it far more than the current implementation of a 'doomsday clock', which simply feels artificial and unrealistic. AI Wars does so many things well on the AI front.

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting nim8or, reply 1

Now this is an excellent idea, I like it far more than the current implementation of a 'doomsday clock', which simply feels artificial and unrealistic. AI Wars does so many things well on the AI front.

It already isn't really a clock. It's more of a meter. It fills up as things happen. You can also do things to take away from the meter. It's not like it's saying "Alright, here is your 200 turns, go!"

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Leo, reply 2


Quoting nim8or,
reply 1

Now this is an excellent idea, I like it far more than the current implementation of a 'doomsday clock', which simply feels artificial and unrealistic. AI Wars does so many things well on the AI front.



It already isn't really a clock. It's more of a meter. It fills up as things happen. You can also do things to take away from the meter. It's not like it's saying "Alright, here is your 200 turns, go!"

Understood and I agree there are quests and things you can do to delay the meter filling, but it still feels artificial. The mechanics that AI Wars utilize, where the equivalent of our Sorcerer King only decides when and how many of his resources to employ against the player is based on the player's ability to successfully make significant progress - those mechanics seem not only more realistic, but better suited to an enjoyable long-term strategy game.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Reply #5 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Will these quests and/or the outcomes of the choices be somewhat randomized so if the outcome of the player's choice isn't optimal the player could save scum?  Or if the same quest comes up next game the player will know which option to pick for which outcome because of past playthroughs?

Unlike many 4x games I think a game like this really needs to focus on replayability in all aspects of the game because the final goal is always the same. 

Thus a modicum of randomness can go a long way towards a sense of replayability.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Agreed.  For example, in that previous dialog in Reply #4, why would you choose option 3 when option 2 prevents the SK from coming after you with all his might?

Reply #7 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 6

Agreed.  For example, in that previous dialog in Reply #4, why would you choose option 3 when option 2 prevents the SK from coming after you with all his might?

 

To show that you're not afraid of that puny sorceror king and to piss him off. And to make him regret letting you live.

 

I'm guessing it will make people see you as insane and brave.