TEC and Advent Loyalists

from Sins Forums

Hi all. I’ve been thinking about some overall changes/improvements to what I consider to be the weakest factions/those that need the most attention. This is mostly for my own benefit, as I will probably attempt to mod whatever I really want changed, but I’d like to know what others think. Here are my thoughts and proposed solutions:

TEC Loyalists: I personally like to turtle, even though it’s not the best strategy ever, and as such the TEC Loyalists are my favorite faction. That said, even with the addition of a 2nd starbase it is extremely difficult to turtle effectively against a reasonable force. I think the TL faction sorely needs some more oomph in the area of defense so here are my proposed changes.

  1. Compartmentalization: This ability reduces the cost of SB upgrades by 20%. I would suggest adding two things. First, have this tech increase the number of tactical slots at all planets by 5. Second, (if possible) increase the amount of upgrade slots available for each SB by 2. Increase the cost of the tech to compensate for how powerful this becomes.
  2. Hardened Defenses: This ability adds 2 armor and +30% health to all tactical structures. I would suggest adding an ability to all tactical structures that prevents them from being disabled. This is quite powerful in the right circumstances but is not always useful. In addition, I would suggest making this a 2-tiered tech and reducing the % health bonus to 20% at each level.
  3. Add a tech that increases the population level of all planets by 15%. This helps a turtling TEC player keep a strong economy as the game goes on and he gains fewer planets on average.
  4. Give the TL a 3rd level of Unbreachable Hull. Makes Argonev SB's a little more capable of surviving big engagements.

 

Advent Loyalists: I’m a big fan of culture; I like the idea of in culture bonuses, being able to take out enemy planets by reducing their allegiance, etc. However, it seems like the AL still can’t make culture a really useful part of their gameplay. To try to remedy this, I suggest the following:

  1. Confluence of the Unity: 2 tiered tech, adds 20% to your culture spread rate per level. I suggest adding a 10% per level decrease in culture degradation when your culture spreads through a grav well.
  2. Acclimatization of Will: 2 tiered tech; increases enemy allegiance change rates by 25% per level. This is a weak tech as it stands now. Generally, your culture is not strong enough to enact any allegiance change. I would propose increasing the rate boost to 30% per level and adding a 10% increase per level to your culture’s resistance to being pushed back by enemy culture
  3. Increase the base amount of culture provided by each AL culture tower.
  4. (I’m not sure how OP this would be) have the Global Unity tech apply to planets that are under the dominion of your culture, friendly or otherwise. This would basically mean that if your culture is dominant at an enemy planet, it would start to generate friendly culture at ½ the rate of planets you own.
  5. Buff Deliverance Engine to be able to overcome any culture generated by a planet (cause the planet to generate ~300 of your own culture/sec.) In addition, have DE damage the planets allegiance; maybe cut the planet’s current allegiance value in half (if this is possible). This would synergize well with Acclimatization of Will. To make sure this isn’t extraordinarily OP, lessen the duration of the culture production.

 

I won’t go into the Vasari since I expect a lot of nerfing/changing to happen in the upcoming patch. Thoughts?

12,431 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Honestly, I think the biggest thing one could do to buff the TL would be to increase the superweapon cap to 5-6.  As for giving the Argonev another health upgrade, do the defense upgrades the TL already has buff the Argonev or just the tactical structures?

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

The damage buff in friendly culture (Militia Weapons I think) affects the Argonev. Hardened Defenses and Militia Armor do not. I'd be good with changing those techs to affect the Argonev rather than adding another level to the health upgrade.

Edit: as to the increase of number of Novaliths, I agree that that would be an excellent improvement. I was thinking more in terms of concrete defences. While Novaliths are certainly powerful if used correctly, or at all, they don't really provide any boosts to actual survivability of TL planetary defences.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I agree that these are the two factions that could use some substantial buffs, perhaps with the Tech Rebels lower level techs as well. But I think you're a little too extreme in some cases. Here's my item by item thoughts.

Compartmentalization: This ability reduces the cost of SB upgrades by 20%. I would suggest adding two things. First, have this tech increase the number of tactical slots at all planets by 5. Second, (if possible) increase the amount of upgrade slots available for each SB by 2. Increase the cost of the tech to compensate for how powerful this becomes.

Adding more tactical slots isn't bad. And while I think a tech should increase starbase upgrade slots, I think that deserves its own tech. If compartmentalization really needs more effect, just buff the cost discount.

Hardened Defenses: This ability adds 2 armor and +30% health to all tactical structures. I would suggest adding an ability to all tactical structures that prevents them from being disabled. This is quite powerful in the right circumstances but is not always useful. In addition, I would suggest making this a 2-tiered tech and reducing the % health bonus to 20% at each level.

Making them Kostura proof would be interesting.

Add a tech that increases the population level of all planets by 15%. This helps a turtling TEC player keep a strong economy as the game goes on and he gains fewer planets on average.

I agree what the loyalists need most in a substancial economic boost. However being TEC I think they'd do better from a trade buff.

Acclimatization of Will: 2 tiered tech; increases enemy allegiance change rates by 25% per level. This is a weak tech as it stands now. Generally, your culture is not strong enough to enact any allegiance change. I would propose increasing the rate boost to 30% per level and adding a 10% increase per level to your culture’s resistance to being pushed back by enemy culture

In theory this is actually one of their strongest techs. The problem is that its so easy to counter culture in advance with just a little of your own and cap ships. It could be better if getting around this were easier.

Buff Deliverance Engine to be able to overcome any culture generated by a planet (cause the planet to generate ~300 of your own culture/sec.) In addition, have DE damage the planets allegiance; maybe cut the planet’s current allegiance value in half (if this is possible). This would synergize well with Acclimatization of Will. To make sure this isn’t extraordinarily OP, lessen the duration of the culture production.

This is the big one. DE has never been very good. If it could disable culture at a target planet then perhaps culture wins might be a tiny bit possible.

That said, I think your tweaks will still be insufficient to make the Advent Loyalists competitive in multiplayer. At the minimum Unity Mass needs a buff and they'll probably need some super unique tech on the level of wail at least. Sadly I doubt they'll get it.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

I think the advent loyalists should receive a new upgrade to the DE called corruptive degradation. this tech would enhance the alliegance loss by 500%.             Coronata needs buffing too

 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
Adding more tactical slots isn't bad. And while I think a tech should increase starbase upgrade slots, I think that deserves its own tech. If compartmentalization really needs more effect, just buff the cost discount.

 Agreed. However, I think it is extremely unlikely that new techs would be added. These effects should be worked into existing techs. Maybe the extra slots could be granted by Twin Fortresses.

Quoting MooSephei, reply 5
I think the advent loyalists should receive a new upgrade to the DE called corruptive degradation. this tech would enhance the alliegance loss by 500%.

That's just Acclimatization with much higher stats. I don't ever research that tech and I don't know how culture works so I can't really comment if this is needed or not. I like the name though.

 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with the TEC ideas, I like the idea of giving them a little more of a buff on their defenses since they are a defensive style faction. I would like to say that the 15% population isn't needed, since they have the best economy of the game and with the Pervasive Economy research can take 20% from any black market transaction in the game can easily keep an economy going. I've never seen or had any problems keeping a late game fleet built and an economy rolling with 5 - 6 planets. Now I don't agree with the super weapons idea since it caters to one play style me and my friends don't play with super weapons because of the imbalances between the 3, and making that an upgrade wouldn't really change the game for some people. I also think that maybe the TEC should get some kind of buff for retaliating after a successful defense so that would give them more of a reason to push after being attacked.

I love using culture as a weapon and I like the idea of being able to spread it quickly and effective to stop an enemy from spreading his empire quickly. Also the idea of using it as a weapons means the enemy has to change their play style in order to account for it. But i do agree it loses a lot of power by mid to late game, even culture bombing a star with 4 starbases and the DE is easy to counter by late game. I think that the AL need some more spread upgrades or maybe just some researches moved around so that they can access things earlier when their useful giving them a planet, economy and maybe a fleet edge when the culture edge goes away. 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

the AL need something to make culture viable.  The devs probably didn't make culture all that good because they didn't want it to become the dominant playstyle.  

 

The problem with this game is that instead of having each faction have several different equally powerful playstyles (which would be great)  there is only one real playstyle to the game.

off topic...  sorry...

AL upgrades that are necessary for my happiness:

#1  all shield techs are 25% cheaper

#2  they get a T3/T5/T7 tech that increases phase missile block by 5/10 15/20 25/30%  (both factions need those two)

#3  AL get their culture center's culture output buffed by 50%

#4  AL get a tech that improves the amount of culture spread after it goes through a grav well by 50/100%  (these would be placed in the culture tech tree to make it worthwhile to research it)

#5  Both Advent factions get a culture tech that increases max allegiance by an additional 25%(AL), 15%(AR), on top of everything else.

#6  Buff cleansing brilliance's radius by 30%

#7  Buff the coronata's base damage output by 50%

That's it until I can think of more,  which there are.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I only don't agree because we still run into the problem where the AR and AL are the exact same thing just one has a better titan and the other has maybe 10% better culture. I like the idea of giving both of them shield buffs and such but I still stay with the idea that the AL should be more culture spread and buff based and the AR should lean more towards fleet buffs and more SC, honestly I think they should bring back the Anima Pact as a research and give it to the AR so that they can be viable without having to rely on culture and since they have less culture spread I think the shield recharge they get needs to work outside of culture as well. 

Also something to think about was an idea i mentioned in another thread about the AL leaning towards a mind control idea which would fall into their back story and be an interesting way to buff them without making culture their primary form of offense