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Giving The Queen Of Thorns Some Love In 30 Minutes Or Less

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Giving The Queen Of Thorns Some Love In 30 Minutes Or Less

from Demigod Forums

Recently Frogboy expressed a desire to have GPG "show the queen some love" in a future update and I'm starting this thread to share my ideas on making Queen a viable choice in higher level games. 

I would love to hear any criticism of my ideas that you have or you putting down your own suggestions of how to help balance the QoT, but please don't put down "Queen of Thorns is fine, I lost a game to a team with her the other night.  TB is the one who needs a buff!"

If you are one of the 1% who actually believe QoT is a competitive Demigod in high level games, then thats ok... I don't judge you or anyone else who is addicted to crack cocaine, but I'm asking you respectfully to put your comments in another thread.

If you have your own helpful suggestions on how to buff her, then please put them down but keep in mind the title of this post.  Try to keep it to number changes and do-able tweaks.  Nothing is going to get "completely re-worked" and if you want to go on about replacing skill trees and such, please make your own post and title it "How Great the Queen Could Have Been If GPG Hadn't Started Designing Her 5 Days Before Demigod Launched"

My Ideas

Give Bramble Shield IV the ability to block enemy de-buffs and interrupts.  If a Demigod already had a Pentinence on him and you bramble shielded him, it will not remove the affect like higher level Heals and any Shield... but if the Bramble Shield was on then the enemy would have to counter by targeting someone else, or doing enough damage to pop the shield before Penting, or just settling for the damage.  This would be good because B Shield doesn't scale well late game and Queen doesn't fare well in the flag lock wars because she has no interrupts herself.  This way Queen could help out in portal capping by shielding herself or allies who are TPing or flag locking.  It might seem overpowered but you have to remember at this stage at the game popping a B Shield is pretty easy... its either a Hammer Slam IV or Mines IV or any burst damage ability + 1 auto attack... A lot easier to counter than Oak's Shield if you ask me.  I don't know if its workable since no other ability is exactly like this, but I think they could manage it with a minimum of effort.  If not, maybe just give it the ability to protect against interrupts like Oak's Shield does if that would be easier.

Give Uproot the ability to heal friendly towers.  The ability is not ever used and this would change that, and in theory it would make another useless skill line, Compost, possibly viable.  I believe this is workable since towers can heal naturally and are targetable by healing effects such as Universal Gadget.

Make Shamblers IV cost as much as Shamblers III.  Right now you're usually punishing yourself by taking the final skill point in this line because you're rarely going to need to summon 4 at a time so its usually a waste of mana since you'll kill off the one or two that are still alive.  Of course you can just make sure all your shamblers die before you summon more and fight at a disadvantage in the meantime... or you can do what everyone does and not screw yourself by taking the last skill point.  I think this should change.

Thanks for reading guys, and happy new year!

Edit 1/2/10 

-Putting a de-buff blocker on shield shows I am stupid, which I now realize.  Putting a interrupt/stun blocker on DGs who have a Bramble Shield I still believe is absolute genius on my part.

demigod
38,800 views 96 replies
Reply #26 from Demigod Forums Top

I believe you when you say the QoT is currently best at being a supporting demigod, but I still don't believe you claims that she is good. You specifically name which demigods you would play her with:

Quoting lifekatana, reply 23
For instance I would never play her with a squishie(reg/da/TB) or sedna, and only with a very very good rook.
End of lifekatana's quote

By straight damage, I'm assuming you mean high dps or high burst damage. In the high dps and high burst damage cases, the shield would be useful as ablative health. In the highdps case, ground spikes decrease in armor values would be a helpful ~30% dps boost for its duration.

Let's review the demigods and their relation to you playing with them as the QoT:

Would play with:

  • Lord Erebus: Top tier demigod
  • Unclean Beast: Top tier demigod
  • A very, very good rook: Close to Top Tier Demigod
  • Oak: Top Tier Demigod

Would not play with:

  • Sedna
  • Regulus
  • Normal Rook
  • Queen of Thorns
  • Torch Bearer
  • Demon Asssassin

Doesn't this suggest that she is a weak link? You get 2 top tier demigods, and only then the QoT is viable? That sounds more like a handicap than a powerful character. Given the the makeup of the community, if you have 2 good players on your team, especially ones that communicate, it doesn't matter if you are only halfway competent yourself. The odds are that the other team will lose, and lose baddly. It is the same as when a AA regulus is feed to the point he gets a mageslayer by level 5. Even though Regulus isn't a very good character, but feeding him he becomes overpowered.

 

Reply #27 from Demigod Forums Top

Lifekatana:  Gosh, don't even know what we're argueing about, we completely agree!

-Yes the Queen is a wonderful Demigod... as long as you have two of the three top tier demigods on your team... and, as long as the other team has a couple non-top tiers for you to help abuse by snaring with Spike Wave and de-armorizing with Groundspikes.

-Yes, Ground Spikes is a wonderful ability... as long as your buddies are covering you while you're open... and as long as you're not going against a team made up of The Golden Tier One Trio who could all give a shit about your spikes.

-Yes, Queen is great late game... as long as you've already won the game, she'll help you win it quicker by clearing creeps and towers!  Yippee!

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top
Teseer you cant handle the replays!
Reply #29 from Demigod Forums Top

I got gigs and gigs of space for em!

'Cmon, I cant fit more of ya!'
-South Park.

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top

No.

 

A team with queen in it actually has something the others don't and CAN beat a -compentent!- full house(the golden trio: Oak/UB/Erebus). 

No, queen actually lets you be such a menace to citadel that if the other team is one guy down, they could see their citadel falling. This discussion is fruitless though, we need to play a game.

 

P.S. A lot of my replays seem somewhat borked(why do I get these invalid state errors?), so I need new games.

Reply #31 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Thundercles, reply 16
  Chain stuns are just incidental counters when using the Queen, god help you when you run into a good Sedna or Ice TB who know what Silence and Deep Freeze can do to you.  Pleas post a replay after you try using QoT against Irahi... I would LOVE to see it.
End of Thundercles's quote

 

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1183762/player/11546/

 

Granted, we got the better selection. Can't find good teams these days. Again Irahi fought brave till the end.

Reply #32 from Demigod Forums Top

Let queen be able to shield the centidale XD

Reply #33 from Demigod Forums Top

I loved your game name lifekatana. I still don't see how a even a good QoT player can win unless he's left alone to farm and destroy towers for five minutes.  With a good team, I can see the queen being VIABLE, but that's not the same as GOOD. She just can't put in the same amount of damage as the other characters, not to mention she can be taken down quickly by an equally coordinated team. (Pent -> bite -> spit -> bat swarm -> pew pew pew -> dead QoT)

 

@synnworld: centidale? Citadel? 

 

Reply #34 from Demigod Forums Top

Like I said I'll write a guide with replays. Anyway the point is farming early game. When you got helm and minions boom push health flag.


Again queen is not a tier I character. But she is sure as hell a lot better than the squishies(Reg/TB/DA although DA can be lethal in some situations) and imho on par with tier II.

I dont see how any character can survive a three man gank save for erebus batting or oakshieldcheating. Queen can shield can heal and can mulch. Her defense is fine. Her damage is just sick. 650 dmg from spikes plus added 60% extra white dmg form ALL sources. Say we have three players (450 dps) some minions (200) shamblers and queens minions(300) and creeps(150). Around 1000+,a mybe even higher with good minion players. And all that is unmitigated for 5 secs. Pretty sick if you ask me, especially because the enemy got no creeps(and no priests) and probably lost half of their minions

Reply #35 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Splitshadow, reply 33
I loved your game name lifekatana. I still don't see how a even a good QoT player can win unless he's left alone to farm and destroy towers for five minutes.  With a good team, I can see the queen being VIABLE, but that's not the same as GOOD. She just can't put in the same amount of damage as the other characters, not to mention she can be taken down quickly by an equally coordinated team. (Pent -> bite -> spit -> bat swarm -> pew pew pew -> dead QoT)

 

@synnworld: centidale? Citadel? 

 
End of Splitshadow's quote

Tomato, Tamoto. And I thought QoT was a women?

Reply #36 from Demigod Forums Top

Torchbearer either steers clear of the 3 man gank or slows them down or stops them in their tracks with frost nova.

Regulus just cripples their speed beyond belief.

The rook steers clear and boulder rolls them to death while his teammate arrive to save the day.

Sedna heals and silences

DA warps to an incoming creep wave

QoT either 

1) Runs away

2) Loses shield and dies quickly.

She really needs

1) a stun

2) her shield to block interrupts and stuns

Reply #37 from Demigod Forums Top

I wish it was easier to steer clear. hehe.

Reply #38 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Teseer, reply 37
I wish it was easier to steer clear. hehe.
End of Teseer's quote
Yea people sa that like it is easy, especially when most teir one demigod are literally the fastest demigods in the game, and two have stuns that will show up frost nova fast.

Reply #39 from Demigod Forums Top

Yeah, the -10% Movement of Frost Nova doesnt matter a while lot when your at -13%-16% from Pent.

Thats when the Wand of Speed saves your ass :D

...Till Lord Erefag shows up.

Reply #40 from Demigod Forums Top

No.


TB slows? Have you ever been the victim of a real gank? They will warp in, stun and superslow you. In the time you have to cast frost nova and slow everyone you will be megaslowed and or stunned. 

Same with reg, the only way to survive with reg is playing shy. 

DA? Don't be foolish, warping to the nearest creeps is a very situational thing, you cant rely on it. Besides DA usually dies on the attack not when he's ganked.

I'll give you that one, sedna is better in surviving ganks then queen is. But queen is not bad in survivability, she's just average.

Reply #41 from Demigod Forums Top

Your right! I've never been ganked!

You know, come to think of it, I don't think I've ever played this game before...

Reply #43 from Demigod Forums Top

I'll split your shadow.

Edit: Yeah, I was wondering what all the other comments other then TB were, I'm foolish :D

Reply #44 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Teseer, reply 41
Your right! I've never been ganked!

You know, come to think of it, I don't think I've ever played this game before...
End of Teseer's quote
Quoting lifekatana, reply 40
No.


TB slows? Have you ever been the victim of a real gank? They will warp in, stun and superslow you. In the time you have to cast frost nova and slow everyone you will be megaslowed and or stunned. 

Same with reg, the only way to survive with reg is playing shy. 

DA? Don't be foolish, warping to the nearest creeps is a very situational thing, you cant rely on it. Besides DA usually dies on the attack not when he's ganked.

I'll give you that one, sedna is better in surviving ganks then queen is. But queen is not bad in survivability, she's just average.
End of lifekatana's quote
Isn't wand of spend interruptable? and doesn't level III shield remove debuffs?

Reply #45 from Demigod Forums Top

Wand of Speed is instant, its a self 25% movement speed buff for 8 seconds.

Reply #46 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Teseer, reply 45
Wand of Speed is instant, its a self 25% movement speed buff for 8 seconds.
End of Teseer's quote
Thats if you have it, in every game you wont alwas have your ideal set up.

Reply #47 from Demigod Forums Top

You were asking if it was interruptable. I was letting you know you couldnt.

The Oak comment made me think you thought it was a debuff? I was just letting you know what it does if you didnt know.

Reply #48 from Demigod Forums Top

QoT needs some sort of interrupt and / or stun. She might have somewhat better survivability than DA, but DA is also kind of weak.  They're both too hard to play and reward you by being about average demigods if you play them right. I think all demigods need to be at the level of the unclean beast and the rook. If you buffed everyone to erebus levels, the game would just be an explosion of damage skills and warping around like crazy. If you nerfed everyone to queen / da level, the games would last forever.

Reply #49 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting lifekatana, reply 31
Pleas post a replay after you try using QoT against Irahi... I would LOVE to see it.
 

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1183762/player/11546/

 

Granted, we got the better selection. Can't find good teams these days. Again Irahi fought brave till the end.
End of lifekatana's quote

 

Crap.  Hate admitting I'm wrong... but if you can beat Irahi and his showerbuddy Icenine when they had a competent UB on their team...  Damnit.

 

Reply #50 from Stardock Forums Top

the only thing i've ever seen a queen do is team-shield and thorns. maybe other builds exist, but this seems to be the heavy favorite. the sednas i've played generally have equal or greater offensive capacity, and they're supposed to be "the" support character. a shield boost would be fine, sure, but it would just further ingrain the cookie-cutter build, right?