Torch Bearer Fire Auto Attack --

i also find TB's fire auto attack sucks incredibly

yep, should be changed so that he can attack while moving, really sucks if your fire aura is useless for yourself unless enemys dont move.

Excuse my lingo but I don't think the auto attack sukcs.

 

What I'm saying is WHY the fuck can't I just run and shoot? (fire mode)

it is a fairly retarded bug, I'm pretty dissapointed it's still in the game.

 

But it does suck, it misses the target if they are too close along with being unable to move.

Its intended.  blast with fire, switch to ice get a damage boost and attack the retreeating DG simple, not hard..

You're a fool if you stay in fire mode constantly, switching will keep you buffed constantly with damage and mana regen.

It says it somewhere in game too, that you can attack whilst moving in ice mode, its not a bug you guys are retarrrrrded.  lol

Jdub You seriously have a history of useless posts. Stay out of Threads if you don't mind. The only thing you ever bring to any Topic is qq and nothing constructive.

 

Anyone have a LINK of a MOD saying its NOT a bug?

 

Just FYI JDUB

 

You have to switch to frost to chase. YOU CAN NOT SWITCH WHILE MOVING. By the time u switch ur targert WILL run away...vrooom GONE.

 

I Play TB enough to know this.

was gonna say the same thing as sinfulvoid regarding jdub's post..... no time to switch for flee'ers

 

Yea  I see what u mean I mean It wouldn't be as big of a deal if u could switch too ice form "on the fly" and chase them. Instead you STOP and whoever your trying to catch runs off....

 

I think I said, Its not a bug and if you stick to one mode you're an idiot. 

you should be switched before he's retreating, not when he retreats.  Idiot.


you can't do it while moving because it has a .5 second cast.  If you could do it while moving it would probably result (like awlays) in 54000 threads calling TB over powered because everyone who plays the game is a narcissitic mommas boy who can't believe they lost becuase obviously they are superior to everyone no matter what class they are playing.  Welcome to the real world.

Somehow it seems like switching to ice mode is faster than switching to fire. If you switch to ice and are clicking furiously for a move or attack order, it seems like the TB will skip half of his "omg i'm going Ice mode" animation. No such luck when switching to fire though.

I noticed that too.

With Fire Aura Level3 the attack speed and movement speed are increased by 15%, TB weapon damage by 30. I almost think it is intentional that he cannot shoot while moving, to let enemies retreat easier. Fireball - Circle of Fire - Fire Nova - shooting at them when they flee  - second Fireball Combo would make him a very strong Demigod hunter.

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/portals.php?show=page&name=demigod-torch-bearer-strategy-guide-video

and

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/portals.php?show=page&name=demigod-torch-bearer-form-dancing-guide

 

Not official responses, but some interesting articles relevant to the topic.

Yes, TB cannot fire on the move in Fire Mode.  Yes it takes longer to go from Ice to Fire than from Fire to Ice.  Yes TB is forced to stop to change modes.

Yes all of this makes it more difficult to chase fleeing Demigods as the Torchbearer.

 

While there has been no "Official" confirmation about any of these things... I think it's fair to expect they are operating as designed.  They are reasonable, and justifiable design decisions that add some depth to the game.  I think this should be considered before crying "bug!"

who care's if tis a bug or not. it sucks ass. it should be changed to work while moving like every other auto-attack. 

I can't believe some people in this thread would find it OP if he could autoattack and run  in fire.

 

Has NO ONE in here played vs a Reg? If ur running and shooting in fire YOU HAVE NO SNARES....

 

I repeat NO snares.... Compared to and  Angel Wing Reg with max (Rank 4) Mines.....

C'mon 

 

"While there has been no "Official" confirmation about any of these things... I think it's fair to expect they are operating as designed.  They are reasonable, and justifiable design decisions that add some depth to the game.  I think this should be considered before crying "bug!""

 

Depth? Depth in me stopping while chasing a fleeing opponent. Design decisions? These guys barely released the game in a playable state. All those pathfinding bugs? Wasn't HoL fine like it was? It was in the design decisions? Get off your high horse the game is quite flawed.  Even if this was ment to be like it is. Why?!? It should be fixed switching betweens modes is blaring weakness and can get u killed mid combat.

I was thinking about this after the last patch came out, and begin to wonder if it was intended since it wasnt fixed and seems like one of the easier to do's on the to do list. 

 

But then I got to thinking about how the Sedna High Priest bug is still in, and theres no way its intended for a 3rd tier cheaper unit to get more bonus from a passive skill, than the high end more expensive unit.  So theres plenty of things that they just haven't got to yet, and fire mode may be one of them.

 

However, I do have a theory on why it might not be a bug, which others have already touched upon.  We all know about the great boosts we get from form switching, and we all know the drawbacks on chases and how frustrating it is to not be able to get off those one or two critical hits in fire mode.

 

It could be that the Damage buff from Fire to Ice switch, and the Attack speed/Damage buff from Fire Aura is too strong in the Dev's minds, as CosMoe said, and they didnt have enough time to think of a good solution so they just put in the lack of a chase auto attack for fire mode.  I actually believe thats a strong possibility.  But it could be true its intended and working right, or just an unfixed bug as well. 

 

The real problem is that our only link to the minds of the Devs as far as answers has come from very few sources (ok, mainly FrogBoy--- and we love you for your input).  But I do think its likely that its intended, whether a permenant intention or not.  Because if you got the damage and attack boost from fire aura and the damage boost from Fire to Frost form switch, constantly, and able to give chase with it....that would be pretty nasty and not even relying on any items.  At auto attack focused items, and you could become an insane Auto attack TB...and I seriously doubt they want him played that way.  He is the mage afterall, and he has enough spike damage without a 3 skill point investment allowing him to auto attack with the best of em.  Thus I believe its intentional.  But like I stated before, I believe its there because they couldn't figure out how to balance it without having to completely rework some of the skills or the form change mechanics. 

 

Being auto attacked by Frost TB, and hit with Rain of Ice can be a killer (well a good finisher with the dmg boost) as it is.  Immagine the super fast Fire form TB able to auto attack you, for even MORE DAMAGE, more frequently, and get in fireballs every 5 or 6 seconds, still able to catch up with you because of his fast speed.  Would be pretty brutal.

This is an annoying bug or feature. Either way it does eliminate some stratagies that could be possible with the TB skill set.

The reason why I believe it is a bug is because of the fire aura bonus. Who is going to spend valuable skill points on the fire aura bonuses when you don't really get any benefit from it? You cant stand in fire mode for any length of time while engaging an enemy DG because if they start to flee, it is too late to change.

Yes, those of us who play TB a lot will change to ice mode long before most DGs start to flee, but it is annoying having to do so as it limits the skills available to you.

An offical response on this some time, would be really appreciated. If it is a feature, I still would like it put up for consideration to change though.

 

Sin, you make some valid observations but I disagree with you on some of your assumptions.  In my post above I was actually comparing what a Fire TB with auto attack would be capable of in contrast to an auto-attack Reg.  Reg has a slow that goes to 10%, and TB has a fire Aura that goes to 15% speed buff, both skill based.  TB's buffs are more substantial and really the best speed/attack skill buff/point investment for auto attacks in the game.  Now beyond that, the customization is item based.  Wether you go slow stack with Dagger+Wyrm or Regs other slow stacking skills, or blance speed and slow with Reg, or however you want to customize the Reg Auto attack build, well you can do the same with TB.  And hes already fast naturally.  Throw Anklet on him, and some speed boots, and you don't have to have a snare to get another DG, though you could buy items for that too just like Reg or others do.  You probably could actually create a brutal Auto attack TB if you wanted to.  I've actually encountered atleast one Frost Tb that did do that, and it was an interesting concept.  Fire would improve it further.  And it's able to do a lot more damage than the early and mid auto attack Reg, primarily because it has Fireballs it can cast as finishers or intros, or even mid fight.  It's an interesting concept. 

But the real reason I replied wasn't to go on about my theories and crazy ideas about TB, but to tell you that you shouldn't switch mid fight if its going to put you in danger.  If I saw a fire TB changing form and im a slam rook, guess what I'm waiting on....  If your right in the middle of the fight and doing it, hell yah it will get you killed, against any Demigod.  He has a ranged attack for a reason.

Not to shoot u down but when you consider Reg you only look at miam. He has things like MoTB/Mines which can easily be obtained.  Far more powerful snares than a Fire TB carrys....

 

I can throw out a "OP" Theory easily. I Frost nova a LOW hp demigod switch to fire mode. Fireball him and chase him down with my +15% speed.... Frost nova has a snare. I could increase my speed and decrease his. 

 

I can "almost" see this being OP. Still the TB lacks any stuns. No nothing of that nature. I compare  him to reg because he is the only other ranged powerful class. QoT isn't even going to be discussed, She is and entirely different play style.

 

Regulus has 3 Snares....Miam, Mark, and Rank 4 mines.  I'm not even going to count that .3 chance to stop and enemy or w/e it is he gets. Regulus has access to all 3 snares at any given moment...

Does he lack direct AOE? Not all that much...Splash damage from Angel Wings. You have Mines for AOE. Even MoTB does an AOE...I just don't see it being OP for a switch on the fly. If its "That bad" chance the +50 weapon dmg buff to something else...Maybe even a SNARE!!! I just don't find that permafrost will ever stop some1 from running away from a TB.  Vrooom

 

Does anyone know how much the max rank of permafrost will slow?

I don't see GPG having any problem with a shitload of other Demigods beeing able to buff speed (even from abilites), chase, snare and autoattack at the same time.

And for all those saying that TB needs to switch modes to be effective - how about playing TB a bit yourself.  While the Marks are really powerfull buffs early game, you simply cannot afford to switch modes mid-late game.  All the onlooker need to understand how switching works atm:

• Switching to Ice - you can keep franatically right clicking and it will almost seamleaslly switch while moving.  He will not start autoattacking for good 2 seconds though and that "almost" is often enough for a half decent player to get away.  The +70ish damage you get is really nice early on, but by midgame switching in combat makes you lose a lot more than you gain.
• Switching to Fire - there is a huge delay while switching during which time you don't move.  After switch is finished, TB still needs a second or so to start autoattacking.  There is no chance to switch to fire on a fleeing DG and use Fireball.

So coupled with not only active skills not working when in the other mode, but also the passive ones, makes switching viable only in the early game when everything is slower.  Switching is just not viable later in the game and especially not when in combat.

The unfortunate truth however is that while fixing Fire TB AA is just a matter of few lines of code (and has already been done by the community), the actual animation for attacking while moving is missing.  Considering bugs that only need LUA changes haven't been fixed yet, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

IMHO They should also make all switching DG being able to do it on the run and seamlessly - will increase the strategies with them a lot.

I would bet a testicle that its a bug and one day it will be fixed, either that or the game will become abandonware for a few years and eventually be released open source as lecture material in universities on how not to write network code.

 

Not sure what I would do with the extra one I won... maybe put it in a jar.

I don't really think that's true, it would just be a few more buttons to press to keep the switching buffs active permanently, and then the characters will have to be balanced with the assumption that those buffs are always active.  It would really increase the tedium of playing TB.

I much prefer the current system where you pick which buffs you want more and swaps take long enough for you to think twice about doing them, I just agree with the majority of posters here that TB should be allowed to attack while moving.

That's disappointing.  Out of curiousity, what does he look like when you load up that fix and he attacks without the animation?

It would be really nice if GPG would say something about this issue as well as his inability to shift to fire mode while moving (you can with ice, sorta).

I fear they're keeping their mouths shut because they know it's a bug and if they admit as such then we'll obviously expect them to fix it.  If they leave it nebulous as a possible "intended gameplay mechanic" then all we can do is argue about it.

It would be nice to FoTM with fire torchbearer..............................but we can't

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