Therax Therax

Release: Kin of the Stars, a mod to bring Sins into the Seikai universe

Release: Kin of the Stars, a mod to bring Sins into the Seikai universe

Kin of the Stars is a gameplay modification for Sins of a Solar Empire, based on the Seikai series of science-fiction novels by Hiroyuki Morioka. This series is more widely known in the English-speaking world by the translated name of the first novel, Crest of the Stars. It has spawned comic book and animated versions by Bandai Visual, and video game adaptations on Playstation, Playstation 2, and Windows PC.


And the mod is available now for Sins beta-testers! See http://hoshizoraproductions.com/kinofthestars.aspx to download, or to look at the readme.


The Seikai series is praised for its attention to detail, with exacting descriptions of how science-fiction technologies like faster-than-light travel work, and an original language spoken by the best known race of the series, the Abh. The Abh (the noun can be singular or plural) is a genetically-engineered aristocratic race derived from human stock. They spend their lives almost entirely in space, whether aboard stationary installations or ships, and disdain planetary life. (The position of planetary governer is usually considered a demotion, and most conquored races are left to manage planetary affairs by their own devices.)


Why is the Seikai universe a natural fit for Sins?



  • The Abh disdain planetary affairs and rarely invade. Instead they generallylive their whole lives in space. Sins places the focus clearly on space combat, with the important structures in orbit, with much of planetary development and management abstracted away.

  • In the Seikai universe, travel between the normal universe and the "planar universe" (where FTL travel is possible) is restricted to gates near planetary systems. These form natural chokepoints where combat occurs to control the gate and the planetary system behind it. Sins' phase jump system fits naturally into this picture.

  • It is a series with rich backstory about the clash of interstellar empires and massive fleets, with lots of technical detail that can inform gameplay.


This mod also showcases a number of uses of the Sins engine to enable gameplay different from stock beta 1, that may be of interest to modders and players to evaluate:



  • Colony ships are lost when they colonize a world.

  • Colony ships can now launch troop transports to attempt to capture an enemy world without exterminating the population.

  • Heavy physical weapons (capital ship missiles, gauss cannons) ignore shields, leading to a sharp difference between ships carrying them and those restricted to energy weapons. Autocannon and fighter missiles are unchanged.

  • Most weapons fire a single shot or burst instead of a constant stream, and they now take a while to reload, but they pack a wallop! A single shot from a gauss cannon or a capital ship will annihilate a frigate. A burst of missiles from a dreadnought will cripple a battleship, or destroy a damaged one outright. Frigate battles are short, sharp, and violent, with high casualties. Because rates of fire are lower, capital ships are still vulnerable to getting swarmed by frigates: the battleship may kill a frigate every shot, but it can only shoot a few times per minute!

  • Fighters are unchanged, but because of the increased lethality of ship-mounted weapons, they feel more in-line.

  • Siege frigates now carry short range missiles with high damage but slow reload time. They are excellent for quick strikes against capital ships and orbital modules, but fare poorly in extended combat due to low overall DPS.

  • Battleships carry anti-fighter beam weaponry, but due to an engine bug they aren't used while the battleship is engaging another target.

  • Capital ship missiles can be shot down by point defenses.

  • Capital ship missile ammunition limited by antimatter. Supply ships replenish the antimatter of friendly ships.



I hope you will have a look at this mod, and see the possibilities that Sins opens up for us, even at this early stage!

46,947 views 60 replies
Reply #26 Top
I kinda like the seikai universe and seeing how the details of UMK are not really mentioned i'd be excited to see how you implement them.
Reply #27 Top
gave this a test run, money is a bit of an issue, I was having trouble upgrading my first planet, and when I colonised an asteroid, I could barely upgrade it at all, yet the AI seemed to have expanded a fair bit, so I was in a bit of a disadvantage,

bot realy keen on the small radius . build area for each captured asteroid / planet, while I like the idea, it need to be a bit bigger, but I like what you did overall, the lose an colony ship after colonising a planet seems good, and the basic frigates seem ok, overall interesting mod
Reply #28 Top
I haven't actually changed costs or income, so you're experiencing a basically unmodified economy. I have plans in that area to address costs and the early credit shortage.

I can tweak the buildable area on a per-planet-type basis. Right now the asteroids have a 2000 unit build zone, up to 7000 for most planets. Do you feel that it's too cramped even for your homeworld?
Reply #29 Top
strange about the economy them as I did have high resources selected, I will give it another go, as for the home planet at least it needs a slightly bigger radius at least to enable more logistic structures, but I really do like the ships, and the damage they do, at least the cap ship you start off with and the early frigates, so keep up the good work, as this will be an interesting mod to play
Reply #30 Top
Version 0.03 has been released!

This is a big one, here's the changelog:

The buildable area around planets is now much smaller, representing the real space pocket inside the star system proper. This leaves a much larger area between the buildable region and the edge of the Sins gravity well where ships can engage in combat without being in range of planetary defensive structures. Line ships can also safely park in this region and fire their mines. This is intended to represent the region of planar space immediately surrounding the planet's sord (gateway between real space and planar space), as shown in the siege of Aptic.

Line ships now have close range anti-proton cannon.

Ship costs, weapon power, and hitpoints have been decreased across the board; this should enable larger fleetsto be used earlier in the game.

Space mines now have their own icon, similar to that of a single TEC bomber.

Caubh-class heavy destroyers are now in the mod.

Roil-class destroyers now have the chance to disable their targets, much like the Ion Blast ability of the Akkan-class cruiser in stock Sins. This ability has a chance to trigger on every shot, as with the Incendiary Shells ability of the Marza-class.

Engine improvements make point defenses fire far more often, generally making it less likely that mines will reach their targets.
Reply #31 Top
And just for the fun of it, here are some pictures of a very nice plastic model of a Lauth-class cruiser. (http://yosiza.hp.infoseek.co.jp/seikai/gousurosu/gousurosu_1.html)

There are more on the page (http://yosiza.hp.infoseek.co.jp/seikai/seikai.html) for a pair of Roil-class destroyers (http://yosiza.hp.infoseek.co.jp/seikai/ba-suroiru/ba-suroiru_0.html) and a pair of other Seikai cruisers that I'd love to have modelled in Sins.

Any modelers and/or skinners up for the task?
Reply #32 Top
I hope we can get some artistic folks to give the right feeling to the game ... *sigh*
Reply #34 Top
curse you. you've just forced me to order the books...
Reply #35 Top
Books I did not read, but I saw all the anime for it The OVA and a movie which is virtually cut in half first season with an extended scene at the end not in the tv - series
Reply #36 Top
Yes, the premier mod for Sins (being the only major mod that's playable) is back!

Newly updated for beta 3, Kin of the Stars is fully multiplayer capable. Single player has been revolutionized by engine improvements to the AI, and a more restrictive research system that helps keep the AI focused on what's important: killing its rivals!

You now need to do research to be able to build capital ships, even your initial flagship:
Bilge-class cruiser (Kol) requires the level 1 projectile weapon upgrade
Zolf II-class ship-of-the-line (Marza) requires the level 1 missile weapon upgrade
Kutel-class transport (Akkan) requires repair platform research (so you have a place to refill its mine bunkers)

I've had some really good games with this version, with battles involving upwards of a dozen capital ships and 150+ frigates. Do not neglect your Hejue escorts (flak frigates); a Zolf II can reduce your entire fleet to scrap metal if you don't give it the respect it deserves!

Download link is in the first post.
Reply #37 Top
Colony ships can now launch troop transports to attempt to capture an enemy world without exterminating the population.


Can you elaborate on how this was done? I haven't peeked at the colony ship or siege frigate files yet, so it might be a easy 'oh just decrease this to 0 or change this to true' thing but it'd be appreciated.
Reply #38 Top
Nice Mod.

Though imho The Zolf Class is too powerful once you get lvl 3 Mobile Space Mine Burst.

It launches 5 mines every 2 seconds for only 4 antimatter per cast (which allows you to cast it dozens of times) which do each 1200 damage. You can easily kill entire grav wells with defenses and enemy fleets with just that one ship.

Even if the enemy has some flaks you can easily overwhelm him with mines and some micro management. It's fun against the AI to do that, but imho not really balanced.
Reply #39 Top

Nice Mod.

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed playing with it.

Though imho The Zolf Class is too powerful once you get lvl 3 Mobile Space Mine Burst.

It launches 5 mines every 2 seconds for only 4 antimatter per cast (which allows you to cast it dozens of times) which do each 1200 damage. You can easily kill entire grav wells with defenses and enemy fleets with just that one ship.

So it goes when recreating source material. It's designed to have a sustained rate of fire of 1 mine/second, and to carry 76 mines.

That said, sieging a defended system is exactly what the Zolf II does best. It has long range, high power. Its disadvantages are its slow speed, limited combat endurance, and relatively low hit points. Your best bet for preventing a Zolf from annihilating your fortress system is to kill it before it gets there.

You can also park some destroyers at the edge of the gravwell. A dozen or so should be able to instantly kill a Zolf when it warps in. Even if you lose the destroyers, removing your opponent's Zolf is a priority. (The destroyers may be too expensive currently for this to be cost-effective. I'll look into possible making them cheaper.)

Even if the enemy has some flaks you can easily overwhelm him with mines and some micro management. It's fun against the AI to do that, but imho not really balanced.

How many flaks are we talking about? In my testing 10 or so flaks, properly positioned, will virtually negate a pair of Zolf II's. It does require a bit of micro, but since the Zolfs require micro to efficiently target their payloads, that seems fair to me.

One other factor is that point defense isn't as common as it's supposed to be. In the source material, every ship carries some amount of point defense. Escorts just carry more, with better range and power. Try to imagine things if a group of 4 Roil destroyers had the same flak power as a single escort does now. Unfortunately, until the Forge tools come out and I can put in new models, all of the Sins frigate models support only one weapon system.

I think the bottom line is that the Zolfs are working perfectly fine. The problem is that the counters for the Zolf are a bit underpowered, mostly for reasons beyond my control at this time.
Reply #40 Top

Can you elaborate on how this was done? I haven't peeked at the colony ship or siege frigate files yet, so it might be a easy 'oh just decrease this to 0 or change this to true' thing but it'd be appreciated.

Planets lose their ownership when their infrastructure is reduced to zero. In stock Sins, due to the way bombing damage is set up, you're virtually guaranteed to have killed off the entire population of a planet before you wear the infrastructure down to zero.

The colony ship just has an ability based off the Marza's "Raze Planet" ability that does lots of infrastructure damage, but relatively little population damage. This makes it possible to remove the enemy empire's ownership of the planet, and recolonize, and still retain a large portion of the planet's population.

This is mostly a proof of concept, since I wanted an alternative to "glassing" the entire planet in order to conquer it.
Reply #41 Top

I think the bottom line is that the Zolfs are working perfectly fine. The problem is that the counters for the Zolf are a bit underpowered, mostly for reasons beyond my control at this time.


Agree on that.

It looks quite awesome when they're launching their mobile mines and swarm the enemy with them.

One other factor is that point defense isn't as common as it's supposed to be. In the source material, every ship carries some amount of point defense. Escorts just carry more, with better range and power. Try to imagine things if a group of 4 Roil destroyers had the same flak power as a single escort does now. Unfortunately, until the Forge tools come out and I can put in new models, all of the Sins frigate models support only one weapon system.


Yeah, the current limits made by the meshes constricts one quite severe.
Reply #42 Top
VERY COOL!
Reply #43 Top

Planets lose their ownership when their infrastructure is reduced to zero. In stock Sins, due to the way bombing damage is set up, you're virtually guaranteed to have killed off the entire population of a planet before you wear the infrastructure down to zero.


Are you sure about that? I don't think I've seen my planets take population, rather than infrastructure, damage.
Reply #44 Top

Are you sure about that? I don't think I've seen my planets take population, rather than infrastructure, damage.


From FrigateTechSiege.entity:
BaseDamage 42.000000
BasePopulationKilled 2.800000


The amount of infrastructure damage and population damage has changed over the various betas, as have planet (infrastructure) hitpoints and population growth rates. I'd have to retest beta 3 to see whether glassing the planet is as common as it once was. I'm quite certain that in beta 1, at least, when bombing a planet I often had a target with 0 population left, but still over 1000 infrastructure hitpoints remaining, and the AI empire retained ownership over the planet until the infrastructure dropped to 0.
Reply #45 Top
I'd have to retest beta 3 to see whether glassing the planet is as common as it once was.


Yep, still pretty common with the current beta and patch.

------------

Btw. I really love what you did with the space mines. I've ripped your idea for my own personal mod and made all rockets in the game frigates. I also gave all capitals some point defense (rockets have like 0.1 HP and point defense does the same damage, so only good against them, not fighters) and made a special point defense ship. No if only the AI would be changeable (especially target priority of ships) I would have a lovely game with working point defenses against rockets and torpedoes.

Btw. if you change the following line in FrigateLaburacSpaceMine.entity
ExplosionName "Fighter0"
to, for example
ExplosionName "Frigate0"
the mines will explode and then vanish instantly and not linger around for some seconds as they currently do.
Reply #46 Top

Btw. if you change the following line in FrigateLaburacSpaceMine.entity
ExplosionName "Fighter0"
to, for example
ExplosionName "Frigate0"
the mines will explode and then vanish instantly and not linger around for some seconds as they currently do.


Thanks for the tip! As you can see, the space mines grab the TechBomber model and explosion. I never thought that the long linger time of the mines was related to the bomber's death animation, although it seems obvious now that you mention it.

I've been in some discussion with Code Herder in the Mesh Files thread, and I hope to get an additional weapon system onto the Roil destroyers. That should change the whole point defense picture in Kin of the Stars.
Reply #47 Top
what? no new ship models?   
Reply #48 Top
Success! Thanks to efforts by Code Herder, we now have the ability to add, delete, and move weapon systems on Sins models. Kin of the Stars has been updated, once again leading the way with a proof of concept for modifying Sins.

Roil-class Destroyers now have a single primary forward weapon, and two rapid-fire point defense beam turrets. They are far more capable of fending off mine attacks, and can contribute meaningfully to the point defenses of a fleet.

Naturally, Kin of the Stars has also been updated for the latest beta 3 version of Sins, and is multiplayer capable of you're lucky enough to find a like-minded opponent. Download link is at the usual location. Download and enjoy.
Reply #49 Top
I know this topic is old, but this deals with the mod :P

Therax, ya got an update on this mod for those of us who have taken interest? :D
Reply #50 Top
Any updates to this mod available?

It looks really interesting but doesn't work at all with live 1.02 version Sins.