Release: Kin of the Stars, a mod to bring Sins into the Seikai universe

from Stardock Forums

Kin of the Stars is a gameplay modification for Sins of a Solar Empire, based on the Seikai series of science-fiction novels by Hiroyuki Morioka. This series is more widely known in the English-speaking world by the translated name of the first novel, Crest of the Stars. It has spawned comic book and animated versions by Bandai Visual, and video game adaptations on Playstation, Playstation 2, and Windows PC.


And the mod is available now for Sins beta-testers! See http://hoshizoraproductions.com/kinofthestars.aspx to download, or to look at the readme.


The Seikai series is praised for its attention to detail, with exacting descriptions of how science-fiction technologies like faster-than-light travel work, and an original language spoken by the best known race of the series, the Abh. The Abh (the noun can be singular or plural) is a genetically-engineered aristocratic race derived from human stock. They spend their lives almost entirely in space, whether aboard stationary installations or ships, and disdain planetary life. (The position of planetary governer is usually considered a demotion, and most conquored races are left to manage planetary affairs by their own devices.)


Why is the Seikai universe a natural fit for Sins?



  • The Abh disdain planetary affairs and rarely invade. Instead they generallylive their whole lives in space. Sins places the focus clearly on space combat, with the important structures in orbit, with much of planetary development and management abstracted away.

  • In the Seikai universe, travel between the normal universe and the "planar universe" (where FTL travel is possible) is restricted to gates near planetary systems. These form natural chokepoints where combat occurs to control the gate and the planetary system behind it. Sins' phase jump system fits naturally into this picture.

  • It is a series with rich backstory about the clash of interstellar empires and massive fleets, with lots of technical detail that can inform gameplay.


This mod also showcases a number of uses of the Sins engine to enable gameplay different from stock beta 1, that may be of interest to modders and players to evaluate:



  • Colony ships are lost when they colonize a world.

  • Colony ships can now launch troop transports to attempt to capture an enemy world without exterminating the population.

  • Heavy physical weapons (capital ship missiles, gauss cannons) ignore shields, leading to a sharp difference between ships carrying them and those restricted to energy weapons. Autocannon and fighter missiles are unchanged.

  • Most weapons fire a single shot or burst instead of a constant stream, and they now take a while to reload, but they pack a wallop! A single shot from a gauss cannon or a capital ship will annihilate a frigate. A burst of missiles from a dreadnought will cripple a battleship, or destroy a damaged one outright. Frigate battles are short, sharp, and violent, with high casualties. Because rates of fire are lower, capital ships are still vulnerable to getting swarmed by frigates: the battleship may kill a frigate every shot, but it can only shoot a few times per minute!

  • Fighters are unchanged, but because of the increased lethality of ship-mounted weapons, they feel more in-line.

  • Siege frigates now carry short range missiles with high damage but slow reload time. They are excellent for quick strikes against capital ships and orbital modules, but fare poorly in extended combat due to low overall DPS.

  • Battleships carry anti-fighter beam weaponry, but due to an engine bug they aren't used while the battleship is engaging another target.

  • Capital ship missiles can be shot down by point defenses.

  • Capital ship missile ammunition limited by antimatter. Supply ships replenish the antimatter of friendly ships.



I hope you will have a look at this mod, and see the possibilities that Sins opens up for us, even at this early stage!

modding
46,931 views 60 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Nice ill try it
but the link doesnt seem to work tho
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Nice, I'll check this out and let you know what I think.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Screenshots for all!




An enemy carrier under heavy beam attack from nearby escorts. Those aren't the problem; the problem is the cruiser in the foreground. Observe the railgun shots (in bright white) about to hit the carrier.



Boom.



A ship-of-the-line, having just unleashed a salvo of mobile space mines.



The target turret, just before impact. Notice the small explosion, which was a mobile space mine the turret successfully shot down before impact.



Look at how much damage the turret took in what a short time span (look at the resource counts to get an idea of the passage of time).


Each of those icons used in stock for the missile turret is a mobile space mine. Each one packs the punch to kill a frigate or take half the life from a cruiser. A line ship can fire these at the rate of 1 / second at max level. The moral? Don't forget to bring along the escorts!


This should be a fight.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Nice ill try it
but the link doesnt seem to work tho

Were you able to get your download to work? I was just able to do it from here.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
What kind of error (if any) do you get? What browser are you using? I've just now tested in Firefox 2.0.0.4 and IE 6.0. It even works in Firefox with JavaScript disabled.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

What kind of error (if any) do you get? What browser are you using? I've just now tested in Firefox 2.0.0.4 and IE 6.0. It even works in Firefox with JavaScript disabled.


on firefox i get this error:

Server not found

Firefox can't find the server at www.hoshizoraproductions.com.



* Check the address for typing errors such as
ww.example.com instead of
www.example.com

* If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
connection.

* If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure
that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.


its the same on firefox 2.0.0.4, IE 7 and Safari.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
page loads for me ...
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I got this feeling my ISP is blocking the site, for what reason i dunno..
Hmm gonna call them

edit:
i called them, and they said there were some problems with .com domains...
So i told them i dont got problems with other sites.
Then he said, he didnt have a clue to what could be wrong..

edit2:

It seems like the page is broken somewhat.
Got Yarlen to enter the site, and it doesnt work for him either
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Worked fine for me, last night..about 2 minutes after it was posted. ;(
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
It's a brand new domain; maybe the domain record hasn't made it around to all the various DNS servers in the world. If your ISP is having problems with getting DNS updates, then you would have no trouble visiting sites that have been around for a while, but wouldn't be able to get to brand-new domains, like mine. I'll upload to another site for those having trouble accessing the domain.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
rapid share for the win!
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Anyone given this a try yet and have some feedback to offer? Since I'm likely going to have to rewrite it for beta 2, I'd love to know what you'd like changed in the process.

Dreadnoughts too powerful? Kodiaks too weak? (I expect them to be, since they're totally unchanged!) How do you like the early game pacing, now that you actually need to build colony ships?
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Of course, I think original models for the mod is needed. But, that can come way later. So far the game pace has sped up a whole bunch. I was able to colonize 8 planets before I ran into the enemy, but there was only one other. The former scout frigate weapons have been noticeable increased. Capital ship battles, go a lot faster. Their power should be pushed down somewhat. I do like quick and desicive battles but..they were just a little to quick. I have some screen shots, but I can't for the life of me locate them in vista.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
So far the game pace has sped up a whole bunch. I was able to colonize 8 planets before I ran into the enemy, but there was only one other. The former scout frigate weapons have been noticeable increased.

Yes, the basic destroyer packs a definite punch. I'm intending to move it down the tech tree a ways, and introduce a smaller, cheaper, less powerful ship to serve as the opening scout. Another important part of the balancing for opening game pacing is the size and composition of the pirate fleets, and the power of their individual ships.

Capital ship battles, go a lot faster. Their power should be pushed down somewhat. I do like quick and desicive battles but..they were just a little to quick.

I'd rather not decrease the per-shot damage of the capship weapons relative to their durability. Seikai weapons are *powerful*. I'll play with decreasing their rate of fire, however, which will slow down the overall pace of the battles.

What scale of battles were you seeing? Seikai fleets tend to be composed of large numbers of capships. In my play I usually move around with 4 or more cruisers (Kol battleships) and 30+ frigates in support, and in these sorts of engagements the loss of individual ships is less noticeable. I haven't done any cost balancing yet, and I'm considering lowering ship construction costs across the board to encourage larger battles. That would also have the side effect of making research pricier, since a given upgrade would cost more in terms of how much military power you could have purchased instead. I'm also going to slow down the rate at which upkeep costs kick in. (That's assuming that the upkeep system isn't totally different in beta 2. )

I have some screen shots, but I can't for the life of me locate them in vista.

Screenshots should be in "c:\Users\\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Screenshots".
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I'd rather not decrease the per-shot damage of the capship weapons relative to their durability. Seikai weapons are *powerful*. I'll play with decreasing their rate of fire, however, which will slow down the overall pace of the battles.


Well, that always works. But I'll miss the cruisers pretty and frequent shots .
What scale of battles were you seeing?


Well, for the first 15-30 minutes it was frigates. I had built some cap ships by then, but they were defending my planets. The biggest battle I have had since installing the mod was around 12 caps and 40 something frigates. The enemy never had its entire fleet in the system at once, due to the wonderful ai! (which apparently will be a whole lot better in beta 2. ) The enemies fleet was probably half my size. Of course this was an hour into game play. About 30 minutes later I experienced a crash. I don't believe its from your mod, its just the beta.

I haven't done any cost balancing yet, and I'm considering lowering ship construction costs


I think both of those would help, If Seikai fleets consist of large numbers of caps..that is.

That would also have the side effect of making research pricier, since a given upgrade would cost more in terms of how much military power you could have purchased instead.


I always like to research the techs just so my ships can have that extra advantage, if you increase the price of the techs, then lowering costs of caps would be nice. also the caps should all cost different amounts of credits, metal, crystal. Big differences. Like the dreadnought should be high in credits, and high metal cost.



Screenshots should be in "c:\Users\\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Screenshots".


I keep getting access denied, even though I am the administrator of my pc and have all security privelages enabled.


BTW, maybe a forum for the website would be nice. It seems your website is still under construction, or maybe your just waiting for the interest in the mod to get higher.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
nice, I'll definitely try it out once I get the game. I'm a big fan of the anime and the novel.


Curious though, to how much extend the mod capture the space-opera battle atmosphere of the Sekai universe? Since most battles begin or end with a heavy mine attack and assault ship to assault ship duels. The mine attack especially can hardly work very well without an intensive intercept system. So how much adaption you had managed to incoorporate.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Curious though, to how much extend the mod capture the space-opera battle atmosphere of the Sekai universe? Since most battles begin or end with a heavy mine attack and assault ship to assault ship duels. The mine attack especially can hardly work very well without an intensive intercept system. So how much adaption you had managed to incoorporate.


This is v 0.01. Not much is incorporated yet. Mainly this version is a bunch of tweaks and changes to weapons and Even renamed some ships. If there is anymore, Therax can explain.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
nice, I'll definitely try it out once I get the game. I'm a big fan of the anime and the novel.

Glad to see another Seikai fan. The series has such depth that I've been trying to mod it into various games for a while now, but Sins is the first one that I think has a real shot at that "you are running an empire" feel. There's a Homeworld 2 mod stalled at AbhNation, and I hope to borrow some of their models once the Sins mod tools are available.
Curious though, to how much extend the mod capture the space-opera battle atmosphere of the Sekai universe? Since most battles begin or end with a heavy mine attack and assault ship to assault ship duels. The mine attack especially can hardly work very well without an intensive intercept system. So how much adaption you had managed to incoorporate.

I hope to capture everything! Seikai is probably going to be easier than, say, a Star Wars or Star Trek mod, at least gameplay-wise, because it's fundamentally simpler: no real carriers or fighters, no ships with "special abilities" like Star Wars' Interdictors.

As for mines and intercepting them, I have a working system in place. Basically, I have made the mobile space mines into small frigates. Mine-armed ships don't fire mines like weapons, they launch these frigates, using the same mechanism where the Sova carrier lauches its missile launcher turret in stock.

These frigates have no weapons, and one ability called "detonate." This ability can only be used at short range, and does damage to both the frigate (mine) and the target. So visually, the cruiser or line ship launches the mine, which then flies over to the enemy and explodes, dealing damage.

Since the mine is a frigate, not a projectile, it can be targeted and destroyed, and it has very few hitpoints. Escorts (c.f. the battle of Aptic gate) are best at this, since they are one of the only ship classes with large numbers of rapid-fire weapons. Cruisers and the like have defensive turrets, but these have much less range than the high-power ones on the escorts.

Line ships carry 76 mines each, and can fire one per second. In my gameplay, two of them can jump into a gravwell and unload their entire load in under 2 minutes. This is enough to destroy everything in the planetary system, if those mines aren't shot down. A cruiser can take 3-5 mine hits, depending on researched upgrades and experience level. An assault ship? One mine equals one fireball.

Cruiser main guns will annihilate an assault ship on a direct hit. Of course, if you're near the edge of the gravwell, you can try to jump away. (Thinking of the Barsroil's mad dash to separate bubbles with incoming electromagnetic shells just behind....)
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Another factor that's incorporated into the released mod (in an early form) is the importance of supply. A significant factor in the destruction of the Gauthloth in Seikai no Monshou is that she is caught with only 4 mines onboard instead of her standard load of 10. The fight might have gone very differently if those other 6 mines had been available to take out 4 or 5 more of the United Mankind's missile frigates from long range.

A line ship with empty mine bays is just a flying tin can with no combat value at all. A cruiser without mines is a considerably softer target than one with a full load. All of this is present in the mod, along with the more mundane difficulties that come with it:

Where do you put your supply ships? Near the line ships, where they can replenish ammunition in the midst of combat? Or do you leave them behind, where they'll be safer from attack?

That group of assault ships that jumped away when your fleet arrived in the system doesn't really pose a threat to your main force, true. But what if they loop in and come in from behind to kill your supply ships? Will you be able to reopen a safe path back to your territory so you can bring up replacements, even if your mine stocks are depleted?
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
It feels kind weird now that this mod exist since honestly its image for some reasons it has been matching Sins since the day I'm interest in the game.



Some of you may remember a few things I mentioned in the past month, like about a heavy PDS system since it's a heavy part of the Sekai universe. Also I once asked about the possibility of Phase Space combat when I heard the existence of the phase lane. And yeah, you can make an easy guest, it was the battle of the Aptic gate that originated most of the thought I had. One fleet out side blocking the exist, one fleet in Phase Space and it was a mine duel.

I must say


As for mines and intercepting them, I have a working system in place. Basically, I have made the mobile space mines into small frigates. Mine-armed ships don't fire mines like weapons, they launch these frigates, using the same mechanism where the Sova carrier lauches its missile launcher turret in stock.


Quite a creative idea and I'm glad you come up with it. When I first see the topic the first concern I have in mind is without such system there is no way to emulate the combat atsmosphere of Sekai's battle.


Btw, since they're both frigate, I presume it's possible for a mine to lock at another mine? Defense mine also has an important role in combat.
Line ships carry 76 mines each, and can fire one per second. In my gameplay, two of them can jump into a gravwell and unload their entire load in under 2 minutes. This is enough to destroy everything in the planetary system, if those mines aren't shot down. A cruiser can take 3-5 mine hits, depending on researched upgrades and experience level. An assault ship? One mine equals one fireball



Are you letting the Front Line vessels keep their mine launching capacity? The Patrol ship has good attack but it's a sitting duck without the assault ships, and the assault ship can not take more then one hit from a mine. That'll create some interesting formation, not to mention the guard ship large bombarding. Well, I kinda think the Futune is an exception

The beauty thing about Sekai is that the capital ships is not just a brutal heavy weapon platform but actually elegance combat ships (i.e Gauthloth, Futune) and the weak ship (Assault ship) is actually important rather then just cannon folder like most other ships.



So from the sound of it you seem to get several core aspect of the Sekai'universe combat. I'm glad you announce it.



Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
Kin of the Stars has been updated for Sins beta 2! Go and get it while it's hot! There are a few major changes to be aware of:
  • Supply ships are now smart enough to only send supplies to ships that need it.

  • Repair platforms also have the ability to resupply friendly ships inside their repair radius.

  • Due to the above, I can now be confident that supply ships won't waste their antimatter supplying full ships, so they also now have limited supplies! You'll need to shuttle your supply ships back to a repair platform occasionally, or you'll find their holds empty.

  • I've significantly reduced the radius around planets inside which structures can be built. This should prevent the problem of getting creamed by Gauss Cannon right after jumping in. Be warned, though: this means that all of a planet's defense will be concentrated in close orbit!
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
sounds good, I will give it a test run soon