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Metaverse Scoring Audit

Metaverse Scoring Audit

As some people may have noticed, Stardock conducted a Metaverse scoring audit. The intention is to try to ensure the general integrity of the Metaverse. 

According to the Metaverse auditors, there were a number of top ranked players who had figured out a way to submit multiple entries for what was essentially the same game. We don't know precisely how they did this (hex editor, decompiler, etc.) but the only things that would appear different in the game were the gameID and sometimes the first researched tech.  Otherwise, it was still the same map, the same enemies, the same everything.

As a result, some people were able to quickly rise to the top of the Metaverse by submitting dozens of 60,000 (max score) games per week.  I have instructed our moderators to find anyone who has done this sort of thing in any significant way and zero out all of their games. Most of the top players were looked at closely.

Some players who have high scores have them because they took advatnage of a legitimate (though in hindsight bad idea on our part) feature of enabling people to resubmit games they played and replace existing scores with them.  So some players who had built, over time, many good games could resubmit as they figured out how to win.  We consider these games to be legitimate and won't be penalizing them (though in any GalCiv 2 this will be changed so that once a game's submitted to the metaverse, it's saved forever).

We also reserve the right to remove scores based on "Cheesing".  However, we have not done so thus far and before we would (if we ever do) we would first post explicitly the tactic being used that is considered off limits before acting. So any sort of cheese tactic wouldn't be arbitrarily chosen and would have to be publicly defensible on the forum (i.e. we would have to make a compelling case as to whether a given tactic was cheese).

If someone feels they were unfairly harmed, they can contact pford@stardock.com who is in charge of the moderators on the Metaverse. No games were deleted, they were simply hidden and taken out of the counting.  But beware, don't waste our time with false claims of innocence. Looking at the scores at the top that remain there, I can assure you that the games were looked at thoroughly at at considerable expense (in engineering hours) on our part.

We consider the integrity of the Metaverse to be somewhat important as it has to be fair to the entire community. Not just to the dozen or so people who are focused on having very high rankings. It's not fair to the people who play the game fairly and submit their scores to be zapped into obscurity simply because a handful of people have found some exploit or cheat or whatever you want to call it to push up ridiculously high scores.


[Message Edited]
7,361 views 155 replies
Reply #26 Top
But we have been examined because we were submitting more than one game a day. Does this imply that they thought we might be cheating?
End of quote

If they examined everyone for cheating or just the people that submit more than one game I don't care. I feel better knowing that no one in the Metaverse is cheating.

Yes, and both Renegade and Loth said they played every game. Their work aginst Stardock. Not proof of anything.
End of quote


You must be right, I am worn out talking to you.

[Message Edited]
Reply #27 Top
I am wondering why this audit has you so bent?
End of quote


Because it is arbitrary and without a way to validate what has been said. Do we have a right to validate what they say? No. In this I think you all agree. They can do what they want without explanation. They have done just that.
Reply #28 Top
Seem to me that there are a lot of us on the forum that want to believe Stardock. Please do. There are some of us who would like a more open discussion of what took place. Why is so hard to ask for?
Reply #29 Top
One statement to make things clear, I didn't hack any game ID, my computer skills are not that good, I even type with 2 fingers, the only thing I can consider that I was targeted for, was because I created a mod for political parties with strong economy, exploration, speed and trade, so if that was the reason for deleting my games, then why they were not flagged when I submitted them? If they (Stardock) are trying to use me and Lothmorg as escape goats for their lack of control then we are doomed, no matter what, if you submit too many games you are going to become a traget of the policing of Stardock, and that is shameful. >:(
Reply #30 Top
One statement to make things clear, I didn't hack any game ID
End of quote


Renegade, thanks for the comment. Would you be willing to provide a detailed description of the mod? If not here in the forum, how about in the Senate Halls?
Reply #31 Top
Like I said in the Diplomats forum, the only thing I can think about that I was doing wrong was that I used a mod political party with strong economy, speed, trade routes and exploration and PQ=30, maybe that is the reason why I was accused of cheating, but one thing that you must take in consideration is that the same party is used by the AI's, so why is that considered cheating? I would consider it "cheesie" but not cheating, because the AI's has the same chance that you have, in all the games I played using this party, I was never able to take down the AI's military because right from the beginning they had a huge advantage from me in the military area, so I had to trade with them like crazy just to get them to be friendly and then at the end of the game after year 2190 I had to trade even sometimes star systems to get them to ally with me, all game I had to bribe them constantly and make them to fight against each other. So am I cheating or just using a strategy?
Reply #32 Top
I had to trade even sometimes star systems to get them to ally
End of quote


I understand this, as I had to do that last night to win an alliance also.
Reply #33 Top
Can someone tell me what impact, if any, playing multiple games on multiple computers has? Could this result in the same game being played and hence be submitted?
Reply #34 Top
You know way more then me Weyr, but if its random then the odds of the same map coming up on two computers is the same as coming up on one. Next to zero

I know loth played laptop alot and was probably moving the games to his desktop and then downloading. Problem there?

The bottom line is Weyr you cannot fight their battles for them. They can contact Stardock and present there case. They can ask for your assistance but if they are not willing to do that you will live with we cannot change what has happened. All were doing is guessing.

The charges were specific Renegade they said they were the same game except the id and the 1st tech. If what you say is true then they cannot be right. We should fight this. I don't care how cheesee your tactics as long as you played the games.

Weyr why not get him to email the mod to you. Enough guessing.

Reply #35 Top
if its random then the odds of the same map coming up on two computers is the same as coming up on one. Next to zero
End of quote


The problem is if they both start out with the same seed, then it is possible in a very non minimal probablity that the same game could be generated, at least in its initial settings. Once started, if they never reset the seed on that computer, then, yes, minimal probability. But the way random number generators work, two computers, starting out at the same time could concievably generate the same sequence of random games at their initial settings.
Reply #36 Top
Weyr, I understand you are upset and trying to help but let the players fight their own battles. They are the only ones who can prove their innocence one way or the other - by dialogue with stardock. They have been offered a way to prove their innocence, let them use it if they wish or not as the case may be.
Reply #37 Top
They have been offered a way to prove their innocence, let them use it if they wish or not as the case may be.
End of quote


I agree.
Reply #38 Top
So far I have not seen any proof of shred of evidence from Stardock convincing anyone that we cheated, so far is just their word, where are the solid proofs, no one is guilty until the evidence is shown, so far I have not seen any evidence of cheating, so why do I have to defend myself or Lothmorg against a evidence that is non existent? >:(
Reply #39 Top
They need to show the codex of the games, the ID's of duplicated games, you know why they have not shown it yet? because there is none.
Reply #40 Top

Quote:

Important Notice: The Metaverse submits more than just your score. It also uploads game data that can be used to calculate ones score. If we believe users are modifying the game in such a way designed to artificially inflate scores, we will remove that player from the Metaverse. There will be no warnings.

End Quote

Taken from the metaverse legends page.

Reply #41 Top
so why do I have to defend myself or Lothmorg against a evidence that is non existent?
End of quote


Stardock have said to e-mail them if you want to sort things out. Do so if you feel strongly enough. The only way to solve this is through dialogue with Stardock off-forum. E-mail Pat and ask him what the inconsistency is and see if there is a way to sort things out Renegade. Posting on this forum will not accomplish this.
Reply #43 Top
Stardock have said to e-mail them if you want to sort things out. Do so if you feel strongly enough. The only way to solve this is through dialogue with Stardock off-forum. E-mail Pat and ask him what the inconsistency is and see if there is a way to sort things out Renegade. Posting on this forum will not accomplish this.
End of quote


I agree but know you have a large community who supports you. Remain calm and professional. If you run into a road block ask us for help. Maybe we can figure out a way for you to move through it. :)
Reply #44 Top
Weyr why not get him to email the mod to you. Enough guessing.
End of quote


I have done a little experimenting. I can play a huge, masso, rare game in under an hour and get 60k WITHOUT the use of Mods. Standard AP1.5 game. I do occasionaly lose a star system to end the game, but hey, whats a few billion citizens :D LOL :D
Reply #45 Top
have done a little experimenting. I can play a huge, masso, rare game in under an hour and get 60k WITHOUT the use of Mods. Standard AP1.5 game. I do occasionaly lose a star system to end the game, but hey, whats a few billion citizens
End of quote


I do this regularly, just figured out how to use mods last week so I am not using any except the "old diplomats party" for the past week. Not counting the time to get the right system I want. I can do it 40 minutes, that is if no AI's declare war on me. Auto save turned off.

Thats why I don't think Renegade was putting up enough games to be cheating. If I did not have a wife kids and only 1 "good" computer I could easily do 4 games a day.

:)
Reply #46 Top
Aldar activates his Galactic Soapbox:

This is an issue between Renegade and Stardock and Lothmorg and Stardock and we should all butt out and let them get to the bottom of it. Maybe a mod they were using broke the map generation. Maybe they were cheating. Maybe their version had some submission wonkiness. All the hand wringing in the world is not going affect this. What it may do is scare new people away and that would be a shame.

Hopefully this situation will never occur again. If it does, I hope Stardock will consider contacting the individuals first before removing their scores...

Aldar shakes his head and wanders off looking for an excuse for DHABB. If properly trained, the Yor make an excellent Dark and Stormy.
Reply #47 Top
properly trained, the Yor make an excellent Dark and Stormy.
End of quote


Did not realize this. No Yor have ever made it through the Guardian's Yor training camps. :notsure:
Reply #48 Top
This is an issue between Renegade and Stardock and Lothmorg and Stardock and we should all butt out and let them get to the bottom of it
End of quote


Well said!
Reply #49 Top

looking for an excuse for DHABB
End of quote

Visit the Diplomats thread for a great DHABB :HOT:

Reply #50 Top
I don't think is because of a party mod.. as I'm using one myself and nonme of my scores have been deleted... (thank heavens) I use some cheeses too.. and my games are still in place (In fact some of the cheeses I discovered are being used by lots of others.. with no ill effects).

Any party changes effect the AI players too (so i've been told) the only advantage that you can get from the player stats from the start of the game that give players bonuses over the computer players are the extra (10 points worth) of extra abilities.

If my scores were deleted for how i've been playing the game i'd be angry too...

I don't know who to believe.. but as stated before I can'tr see that stardock would do anything to make players angry about things.. in fact i've seen them do the opposite.. doing things just to make players happy (even things I think take away from the game and that I was against).. for a while it seemed that everything I did to win was being changed, which made it harder for me to win while using the same stratagy.. thus I simply had to develope or change other stratagies to make it possible for me to still get top scores (without cheating) ..

The extent of the pary file change that i've made now is that it sort of turns playing the huge map into like playing a smaller map (and yes the AI players are getting the same benifits as I am) Ships going further , sensor range increase, and other things..

It has made the game a lot more interesting.. as prior to using my party mod I used to be able to get all the way through without even having a battle.. now I always have at least 1 AI battle me towards the end of the game.. (happens regularly after year 2186+ ) so my games now have everything (I don't use any other mods)

So as I say i don't thinks its because of a party mod