Time for another thread about this...

All I know is I don't have these problems playing Gal Civ II...

Yeah, did they ever reduce the duration of its invulnerability even after they made it start working before it died?

That said, fighting an Eradica in a Star gravity well was probably not the smartest thing you could have done. Those Dunovs would have kept it out of antimatter anywhere else,.

Nerf Dunovs.  They are way too dangerous when used properly anyway - like in a grav well.

Lol. I would probably just give uncapped AOE abilities a fair (32) target cap. That way humongo fleets still are difficult. If you fought an advent starbase with the meteor storm ability the same problem could have held true.

If you read it all, you would have read I was at my own planet And my 4 dunovs can't do so much when the titan regens 9 AM per second on 50% health...Or atleast he regenned a shitton...

And I believe they only made Unyielding Will stronger, and applied no nerfs at all to it. 

What cool guys!  Playing against the AI instead of against real people, not three guys against 1 AI or 2, but, count 'em, three AIs! 

Dirty, please, STFU >.> Not all of us like what you like. And I prefer to play against AI with friends, since PvP kinda bores me since 90% of the pvpers got a shitton of experience already. with the other 10% i happily pvp(and have already done a ton of times)

Admittedly, there is a philosophical point to whether you would engage in such monumental clashes just to see how it all shakes out, or accept the reality that those types of conflicts would almost never happen in a purely Multiplayer contest.  Primarily because no successful scenarios exist where non-aggression by opponents, allowing the build up massive armada type fleets, leads to anything but 4 hour type games.  This is not the desire of Multiplayer since the entire premise of having human opponents is to pit your skill against theirs, and to hopefully get in as many games as possible in what is already a time consuming endeavor. 

Perhaps the consequences of some of the AoE perceived imbalances are situational, but in general you can't find much fault in a scenario where by comparison someone has 200 bombers running around.  Ai is for training only imo because even viscous ai can only offer a mechanical and predictable opposition. 

Something is very wrong with not only the non-aggression aspect that lets players tier up, but ai contests in the end are fap fap fap for the brain that leave one empty and with a sense of cheapness.

Unfortunately, the prevailing attitude is - it is kill, or be killed.  Not Sim-city pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake.

 

Not everyone has the time for MP. Most of the time I play against the AI it's to test some modding out; or it's late at night to the point where people who I play with aren't on. Take your shitposting elsewhere.

Proto, I guess you are correct that such big battles almost never happen in PvP, but it´s still ...somewhat... OP that 1 ability can take out an entire fleet in just 2-3 uses no matter the size of that fleet. And altho 200 bomber fleets are very powerful as well, they can not take out 100 ships at once.

Good point, but remember, if you have a single uncontested monster titan, the only true counter is another monster.  At that point (and 200 bombers) it becomes more than a rock paper scissors situation, and I can't imagine allowing a conventional fleet anywhere near an enemy titan for fear of feeding it.

 

I disagree. There are just different type of players out there.

 

Pure single player

LAN players

ICQ private games... which is nothing more than LAN via internet

ICQ casual players

ICQ competive players

 

 

 

Only the last group is what Dirty is speaking about. BTW... let me get this staight. Your method of "inviting" people does not work. Quite the opposite probably. So just be silent about this topic in the future. Thank you.

 

 

Correction. It is not your desire in multiplayer.

 

Most people play a game for fun. And nothing else. A human opponent tends to more fun far various reason including being more intelligent and having somebody who you can actually annoy by razing his planets.

 

Some people like to have 4 games an hour.... and that quite fine for me.

 

But there are also people who would like to move beyond tech level 1 someday, before the game is over.

 

And then there are people who actually enjoy huge fleets dishing it out. They enjoy and play the game for this moments.

 

Many "Pros" however have only the desire to play 20 games an hour and to win those 20 games.

 

This is the thing I just dont understand about the "Pros". They dont seem to play the game for fun. Victory is everything, the cost irrelevant. Most people abusing bugs are a member of this faction. 

 

Now, dont get me wrong... I also prefer to win.... naturally. But in the first place I want to have epic spacebattles between multiple players.

 

For some people, I sometimes think they could remove all graphics..... just symbols for all ships, planets... ect. Because the "Pros" dont seem to care at all about the game itself. They seem to only care about their wins. I think you could replace all ships with sail ships and space with water and all weapons back to the stone age.... and they probably wouldnt even notice, let alone care.

 

As I have said before.... everyone should play the way he likes and if you like 20 minutes 50000 clicks games.... enjoy them.

 

But dont speak badly about the people that play the game for fun.

 

 

Besides.... long games offer an entirely new point of view on the game. Far more than in short games you have to consider the longterm effect of any decision.

 

To the topic of E-Sports:

 

How many people do you see outside of the house who do sport? Quite a lot probably, depending on conditions and time of year of course.

 

How many of those people do you think will participate at Olympia? How many of them actually want to participate at Olympia? Not very much probably.

 

Even under the best of circumstances I do not think that there more than 1 or maybe 2 out of 10000 players of any game that are interested in E-Sports.

 

 

 

Anyway.... enough of that. Back to the main topic:

 

If you have a high level Eradica, you have to hit it with everything you have. If your Titan died earlier.... a retreat is in order.

 

The - awesome - fix to Unyielding Will make the Eradica a murderous weapon in any war of attrition. Because the harder you hit it, the more it dishes it out. So unless you have enough firepower to really kill it within a reasonable ammount of time, you better avoid it. This is more or less true for most titans, the Eradica is just the most noted one.

 

Contrary to popular belief the Eradica isnt that good when it comes to dealing with fortified systems. A Coronata will do a lot better under such circumstances. So retreat and wait for your Titan rebuild.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, coronata is indeed better against a single opponent, like a starbase or any defensive structure or titan or capital. But the Eradica can hit them all at once(Given that they are close enough) for less damage, but 1x 5500 damage is worse than 20x 1150 damage for example. I admit tho that the Coronata is a quite nice titan(Besides it's lvl 6 ability, which I dislike, but friends of mine like it's so just matter of opinion) 

And thank you ARESIV for defending every style of the game!

 

Btw, I have once had a friend who had gotten like 35million user actions in like 4 hours according to after battle statistics, and was wondering how the hell was that possible? Is it just a broken thing?
 

And indeed, I play games for fun, just on my own rate, kinda sit back and relax, talk with friends while playing and just watch some epic space explosions

Yes, it is much more fun to annoy a human than an ai.  If this is your intent, obviously, you have mastered having fun.

I'm starting to see now...winning epic space battles.  Which ones are you referring to?  The ones that take place in the 4 games an hour (15 minute games), or the 20 games an hour (3 minute games)?  All I'm saying, is to get anywhere near the fleets the op mentions takes much, much longer than most (myself included) multiplayers want to experience.  Yeah, it's great to launch your unstoppable doomsday armada against your enemies.  But the real enjoyment in doing that comes from knowing you have done so with just the right strength, just the right fleet composition, at just the right time. And all out of necessity, and by design.  Because in a skilled multiplayer contest, you will not have the luxury of being able to sit back and build up an exhibition force to parade around the galaxy.  Unstoppable doomsday armadas in a skilled multiplayer game are much more modest than the type with 200 bombers mentioned.

Never my intention, but forgive me if I can't help being a smartass.  Training with ai can be fun.  Getting a few bowls on the bong under your belt and watching the pretty ships & colors while listening to the Vasari commander voice "warp drive at maximummmmmm!" can be fun too I suppose.  But saying that most competitive multiplayers are "bug abusers" is absurd.  Besides, the only person I know that likes to molest vasarii is kbroke.

The short term affect of long term decisions is there is no long term future if your short term decisions aren't based on immediate needs assessments.  You can't speculate about what kind of fleet you'd like to have at the late stages of a game before you consider:

Everything else required of your position on the map in relation to the race and proximity to your allies/opponents.  Relative layout of planets and connecting phase lanes.  Apparent actions of opponents through constant scouting, resulting in countering actions (soft or aggressive).  Developing situations arising with your allies successes or failures.  Dependent reactions required to sustain or further defensive efforts -or- Determine the capability of an ally (or yourself) for combined attacks upon a shared opponent. etc. etc. etc.

So, not to cast aspersions, but whatever your cup of tea is, that's cool.  It's just that it's a shame more people don't step up and try to use their skills in multiplayer contests.  It's not easy, but once you get past the fear of intolerance, ridicule, and the over inflated egos out there, it's more fun than any brain fapping of ai contests.

Proto, I think the problem with barely any players joining competitive multiplayer is the fact that a lot of the PVPers at the moment are very skilled, and a "noob" like me, who doesn't like to lose every battle without even having a remote chance of winning, will not play agaisnt such players. Instead I'll join games where other noobs are which I expect I have an actual chance against. Not to forget that I like 5 hour games with huge space battles :)(And I love mods as well :P)

I agree with you that a high level Eradica is ridiculus against large frigate fleets.  Almost as ridiculus as The Maw + Micro Phase Jump on a Vorastra, Overcharge + Explosive Shot on a Ragnarov, or Nanoleech + Dissever on a Kultorask.

You really have to fight these things with bombers...

maw + micro phase jump..never really encountered it yet(when used properly anyway) so far it hasn't seen that OP to me yet, effective, but not OP.

overcharge + explosive shot, is that the one that does -8 armor or the massive bullet that makes all frigates bump back?

and nanoleech + dissever is indeed quite effective as well. but alteast you have a chance of killing the titan before his nano leech recharges(slight chance, but possible if its not lvl 10 yet;p)

But in comparison, the Eradica is still WAY better against frig fleets than any other titan. especially after lvl 6 and it's unyielding will ability where it just spams his ability more and more the closer it comes to death, meaning your ships will only die faster and probaly not even kill it.

The chastic burst ability, altho maybe a target limit would help, isn't that OP of itself(the 2 AoE attacks of the ragnarov and  nanoleech+dissever is just as effective) but the unyielding will just makes it insanely OP.

Most MP games last 45 minutes to an hour. Good games can extend to 1:30 to 2 hours or more. The best thing about MP games is they skip the boring mop up end phase of the game as players admit defeat and exit out (usually).

 

If you are a noob and want a satisfying beginning to MP host smaller games with slower settings. A 2v2 on Normal or even Fast settings will scare away most veterans. Even if they do join you'll likely have time to assemble a decent fleet and have some good battles which is what the game is about.

You may also want to restrict a veteran from using Vasari as one of their favorite tactics is Starbase pushing which can be very difficult to counter.

 

Option 2 is host a FFA which may still attract some veterans. In this case only play a FFA with locked teams as this way you won't be the only one losing which should take the pressure off some. I'd consider blocking a vet from using Vasari here too.

 

The other mistake new players make is over valuing capital ships. Capital ships are great but for their 50 supply they are horrible in fleet battles compared to frigates. Investing in 3 or 4 early capital ships without support is a really bad decision, plus you've spent any experience earned between any capital ships in the gravity well significantly reducing levels.

You should build one capital ship and base your strategy around it until you have a considerable support fleet built and be ready to retreat it well before it reaches critical health. Build repair bays on a rear planet if you need to retreat your capital ship from a battle. If your winning don't retreat your frigates, just move your capital ship out repair and bring it back in after it's repaired.

Don't invest heavily in research and it's ok to not have something constantly in the research queue. There are several goto techs that you should get or eventually get when ready. Watching replays can help you get a feel for what better players go for. Pause the game at various increments and see what they get at those points.

Scout, look at what he's building. Build a counter fleet or a better fleet. 

Also try not to suicide your fleet. If your outgunned retreat and build your forces for the next engagement. Have a planet with 3, 4 or 5 frigate factories and you can easily pump out units when needed.

 

 

Turn on replays too so you can watch them later.

SINS MP - Societal Standards

Hm, I usually build my first capital ships with as much frigates as possible from begin unit cap. and research first row damage/health things as well as the terran pop(and as tec reduced costs/increased metal) from first row quite quickly to get that little boost extra then I usually get a 2nd cap and max out my fleet slots again and research some more and kinda go on that way. 

And the "once in a long time" pvp game that I host I usually just look at total amount of games, and people that are way above mine, or I know are constant pvpers, I ussualy just ban em out and wait for more people to join that aren't 24/7 pvpers

Problem with that is you end up banning people like me that like playing in slower or more relaxed settings because my stats are high. Your focus should be playing with people that want to have fun versus how many games they've played, which might be an indication they like the game. Plus I can point out some players on ICO with several hundred games now that aren't very good.

Attitudes like this is almost as bad as the skilled games kicking noobs who want to play competitively.

 

Sounds like a lot of early research when you don't have much to back it up...

 

I was mostly speaking about "non Pro" player versus player games in my initial post.

 

Yes, the AI - like about any AI in any RTS game - leaves something to be desired. It still has many uses, one being teaching people the basics of the game.

 

Or do you prefer new player with the first question why they cannot colonize that odd vulcanic world?

 

 

 

 

The true power of the Maw lies within the combination with Mirco Phase jump. Especially late game..... carrier groups are the best weapon against high level titans..... and they can outrun any Titan forever. Not the Vorastra however. Before level 6 it will at least fire on the carriers.... once on level 6 expect your carriers to be breakfast.

 

No other Titan can stop 80 bomber wings so swiftly and permanently as the Vorastra with the Maw.

 

The actual total damage output might be higher for other Titans. but never forget that there is nothing you can do about your ships being sucked in.Sure, an Eradica will rape 40 carriers faster.... IF and thats the big if it ever gets in range.

 

 

Yes, it doesnt kill your ships, but it removes them from the battle. While your frigates are holding their distance the Vasari can pulverise your Titan and few capitalships that can reasonable attack the thing. Add even a bit of defense and Vasari Rebels have an defense that makes TEC Loyalist look like turtle beginners. Also consider that with the Kortul the Vasari have the best AM removing Capital ship that is actually a descent battleship too.

 

I think that a slight further nerf to Nanolech might be in order.

 

It should also be noted that Disruptor Nanites on the Vasari Phase Missile platform disable ALL hull, shield and AM regneration for 5 minutes.

 

A single turret will END a level 10 Eradicas temper tantrum before it even beginns. 0.00 AM regeneration + 800 % is still 0. after all.

 

Having two eqal advent fleet dishing it out is at first clearly won by the Eradica. Unless the Coronata has a Radiance with it. It will remove the antimatter of the AR Titan. After that the Advent Rebel is pretty much screwed. You cant destroy the enemy fleet becausse Supression Aura kills most of your firepower and it is a passive. Have fun trying to snipe the Radiance with what left of your firepower. Of course your Radiance might be saving you from Unity Mass for a bit, assuming of course that it survived the initial volleys and the - not hindered - firepower of the AL fleet.

 

While killing enemy frigates is certainly the best option making them more or less useless is a power that should not be underestimated. Especially as there is nothing you can do to stop Supression Aura.

 

 

Generally we should be quite careful with any further nerfs to the Advent Rebel.

 

The Eradica is arround the only good thing they have. Wail has been made even more situational than before and if you now lose a large part of your fleet to it you deserve it. On the other hand the AL, while still having some issues (they need lots of labs to be effective) are gaining more and more popularity due to all their buffs. With maxed out resarch their illuminators actually have something resembling teeth, especially in own culture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have a level 10 Eradica you should have some Domina's built by then. Vasari turrets are nullified by their heal ability.

It's the massive bullet that causes the knock back.  The key here is Overcharge.  Overcharge doubles the damage Explosive Shot does AND doubles the range over which it does the damage.  On level 4 (with Overcharge) Explosive Shot does 3200 points of damage to every target within 5000 km of the intital target.  This is a huge amount of damage with a huge range.  I've often insta-killed 50+ frigates with a single shot with this combo.

people forget about that armistice ability to screw with the enemy's timing.