thanks psychoak, just wanna point out that all files modified will only be for my benefit, WILL NOT be posting and modified files for download, just want to make that clear as i am also a member of the BTTF mod for Grand theft auto and alot of people were illeagally modifing files and hosting it as their own work. 

When you say "break the AI" how much will it break, i mean ok so im guessing that by doing what i plan on doing then the AI will also have all available reasearch, so wont they just use the reasearch as norman, or do they actually need the reasearch stations to operate correctly.

The AI will research like crazy, spending much of it's resources maxing out.

Of a particularly devastating nature are the fleet upgrades, which come with a tax penalty to credit and resource generation.  Artificially rapid research leads to equally rapid crippling of the economy.  When they max out fleet research with three planets and no trade ports, they're dead.

i think the jem'hadar research path should be more immediately rewarding, to me so far it's just much better to rush the breen  cruisers and emp weapon

it seems there aren't that many strikecraft in most battles so the insidious is of limited use (and kimals can block missiles as well as kill strikecraft), and the dominator is far surpassed by the breen ships

i'm also not sure what the first upgrade in the line is supposed to do, it says 'unlocks jem'hadar fighters' but nothing appears to change in that regard

diplomacy feels a bit harsh though i'm sure it's mostly due to the 1.34 patch to the game itself; i'm used to surviving bad map positions by allying with neighbors, so i sent several envoys to a federation ai. they never reciprocated so i got suffocated by four different factions

Jem'Hadar research works in conjunction with Jem'Hadar abilities.  Their fighters and frigates get special improvements the other ships in the fleet don't.  Your Jem'Hadar elites greatly increase the effectiveness of ships through that research.

While it may not appear to be that powerful, you don't get kamakazi fighters, or any of the Jem'Hadar specific improvements from the Elites, which include Glory to the Founders and Victory is Life.  Immensely powerful upgrades.  No research, no use.

Okay, i'm getting crashes when i try to activate this mod, yet i defintly have a good install, (i.e. up to date no other mods enabled e.t.c.). Any idea how i can figure out whats wrong for me?

First thing first, manually edit EnabledMods.txt, and start it up already activated.

Second thing, if that doesn't work, go to the install directory and use "Sins of a Solar Empire Diplomacy Dev.exe" to run the game.  Post the errors you get, or find me on the sins irc channel and hit me up for help there.

You do have both the primary install and the .5d.5 update, right?  That last update to Sins will break the unpatched release.

Ahh right i only have the basic form tottally missed the patch Wooops, sorry for bothering you . Also thanks for letting me know i need to use the developer exe to track down erors . I thought error logging worked with the defualt exe as well, dumb wiki .

Dev.exe is your friend. Use it

Now that rebellion has been released. What are the team's plans for it? Will there be rebel of each race or will you guys stick to the main story line of the three race?

I am pretty sure this was discussed but now that Rebellion is back in the forefront instead of rumors and speculation perhaps these things needed to be revisited.

It's in beta, that ain't released.  Patches will be enough of a hassle for the mod that there isn't going to be a Rebellion port until the official release at the earliest.

There are some mechanical additions in Rebellion that will be very helpful, but there are no plans at this time to have rebel and loyalist factions.  Two particularly useful functions are the added firing delay in weapon effects and the ability to branch research paths.

From my understanding, you still can't branch research inside a race.  Rebel and Loyalist factions are different Player.entity files.

There be additional prerequisite functions in the files.  Used or not, the functionality for creating a divergent research tree appears to be in the code.

What happened to your .weebly?

Weebly is being moved to soa2.x90x.net/. Needs a lot more work and was going to post when more was added. Preview a few of the new borg tunes while you're there

Also new host for the reference files are on the SoA's ModDB page and on a SoaSE Skydrive to browse or DL individual files

Feel free to post links to the REf files on your own pages

  Reference Files

(making my first post on these boards for months (yeah, having a kid will do that to you)):

I'm not quite sure what the rebellion will bring to this particular mod.  I haven't played it yet, but the big improvements that were billed by Stardock were the Titan ships and corvettes.  Titans aren't really applicable to the Star Trek world (except for the Borg, which are nicely accommodated by expensive cap ships) and neither are corvettes.

Perhaps it will become the standby version of Sins, so there may be some value in modding for it in that regard, but given that everyone has diplomacy already it's not clear that it's 100% necessary to go to rebellion.

As noted in my last post, I've been too busy playing the thrilling "new daddy" game to spend any time modding or posting.  That said, I finally freed up some time to check out the latest mod upgrade.  I have to say, I'm quite impressed by the progress the SOA2 team has made.  My first impressions are all positive:

• The mod’s previous version was easily the best Sins mod out there, and the recent update makes it even better.  This mod can be enjoyed either single or multi player, which is rather remarkable given that the more you mod, the worse the AI usually gets.  It speaks well to the mod team’s ability to work with Sins’ inherent limitations.
• Capital ships are more even, both with each other and with other ships.  In the last release, each race had a clearly preferred cap ship, usually something that could be spammed to defeat any fleet (think the Galaxy Class, Neg’Var, or D’Deridex).  Balancing out the cap ships improves the AI’s ability to play and makes a mixed fleet more important.
• Races are more specialized, making things more interesting.  Although it’s hard to get the AI to do a good job with a couple of races (Roms & Doms), it plays quite well with the Klingons and Federation and also the Borg.

I'll follow up with some specific thoughts on how to effectively use each race later.

Congrats, and glad you enjoy it so far,

Speaking of being away for a while i haven't had much time to do anything lately. Warmer weather will soon be here, and with it crazy busy 12-15 hour days at work. A rinse n repeat of last year.

Psychoak is the main guy responsible for the ship/racial stats now. We lost Myfist0 to forum drama. So we need to figure out how to complete the new UI ourselves. We "still" need to finish missing ship, and structure models.

We could use a modeler, and texture artist right now, because we got a few models in game that need to be textured, and uv mapped. I dont have the free time, or i would do it myself. That's what having a job does to ya.

I have pretty much been on the sidelines saying ether yay or nay to stuff. About all i can do really.

Grand Admiral Prawn's Specific Faction Impressions, Tips, and Advice:

  Federation:

• Type: Balanced fleet with many support capabilities across multiple classes
• Best for:  Beginners, conservative players, AI
• Strengths:  Cruiser capabilities, survivability, cap ships
• Weaknesses:  Ship construction cost, construction time, research required for multiple quality starships
• Peaks:  mid to late
• Preferred Cap Ship: Galaxy (but most others close behind).

Description & Tactics:

The Federation is a great race, and probably the one most people will start out with.  Their solid mix of cruisers with offensive, defensive, and support capabilities makes it vital to have a few of just about every class of ship, which is both a benefit and a hindrance since a lot of research is required.  A fully-formed Federation fleet is incredibly powerful, but takes a while to build.  The Federation can’t really afford to lose a lot of ships or it will be vulnerable for the time it takes to rebuild them, unlike, say, the Klingons with their fast build rate; this makes the Federation a good race for conservative players who like to research.

Federation cap ships are a solid mix.  In previous releases, the Galaxy was by far the best with its repair ability and stat boost.  Although the Galaxy is still probably the best, the Sovereign is good (more survivable, but less of an impact on outcomes).  The Nebula, with its torpedo burst ability and Nebula Effect make it quite valuable too, and the Defiant makes for a strong but affordable ship (previously it had a bad habit of exploding in its first battle).

The Federation is designed to be a power late in the game, bringing large, balanced, and well-researched fleets to the field and rolling over enemies.  As such, Federation players will want to set up strong defenses early on at strategic choke points and make enemy players look for a more tempting target.  Phaser turrets in bulk are incredibly effective, as are starbases with a lot of structures around them (e.g., surround a starbase with research stations that draw the autofire).  Using these tactics allow you to keep your fleet small to avoid the economic penalty.  When playing against the Federation, you will want to press them mid-game once your economy is established while the Federation is still researching their best tech.

Although they may peak late, the Federation can also make a good early bum rush by building two or three Ambassador Class starships, which require no research and are among the best colonizer cap ships.  Toss in a bunch of Miranda Class or a few Excelsiors (only need two research stations), and you have a good fleet for rushing.

Klingons:

• Type: Firepower-heavy with both cheap, throw-away ships and tough, expensive cruisers
• Best for: Disciplined players, Kamikaze players, AI
• Strengths: Firepower, particularly at low cost & build time
• Weaknesses: support skills
• Peaks: early to mid
• Preferred Cap Ship:  Neg’Var

Description & Tactics:

It’s impossible to get away from what the Klingons are: warriors.  Their single biggest strength is their ability to build large fleets of warships with lots of firepower very cheaply and very quickly.  When playing as the Klingons, you want to build a fleet, throw it at an enemy down to the last ship, and then repeat.  It goes against conventional wisdom in 4X or RTS games to throw your entire force at an enemy planning to lose most or all of it, but the Klingons’ fast build rate and low cost mean you can do it again and again.  The K’Vort cruiser, which costs virtually nothing, builds quickly, requires only a little research, and does about 200 DPS is probably the most cost-effective ship in the entire mod.  Enemies can’t match the Klingons’ build pace and will have little recourse but to get into a war of attrition that favors the Klingons.

The Klingons biggest liability is that their ships top out.  Sure, you can build a fleet of Neg’Vars and Vor’Chas, but that forfeits the benefit of being able to constantly rebuild your fleet.  With few support abilities, such a fleet is inferior to a Federation fleet and you actually lose combat effectiveness (if your opponents are respectable).  That leaves you throwing fleets at enemies late in the game when their cap ships will just eat up the experience, which isn’t good.  Therefore, you want to start attacking early and often.

Romulans:

• Type: Subversive, asymmetric race with good economy
• Best for: Spoilers, economy players
• Strengths:  Stealth attacks, support
• Weakness:  Overall fleet strength
• Peaks:  not applicable
• Preferred Cap Ship:  Norexan (stealth) or D’Deridex (battle)

Description & Tactics:

The Romulans are a weak race in direct battle that makes up with asymmetric abilities.  If you take a look at the Romulans’ core cruisers that will make up a fleet (e.g., Sparrowhawk, Killerhawk, & H’Viek Warbird), their statistics and abilities just don’t match up well against the Klingons or Federation.  Sure, you can put together a fleet that’s almost as good, but you’ll be wasting precious resources that are better used elsewhere.  What you need is some stealth!

The Romulans get access to the cloaking device early in the game, and you should use it. Take a look at the Romulan planet-bomber, the V-11 Stormbird: it is accessible early, fairly cheap (in cost and supply), has fairly good ship-to-ship combat, and a respectable antimatter pool to support the cloaking device.  Taken together, that's a recipe for a quick kill.  Spam as many V-11s as you can, give them cloaking devices, then take them straight to your enemies' homeworld as soon as your scouts find it.  Bypass any and all defenses using the cloaking devices and go for the quick kill.

The Romulans also have other stealth attributes.  The Norexan warbird’s frontal assault ability (which I’m proud to say I worked on) gives it the ability to dish out over 2000 DPS for up to 10 seconds every minute (and you can even cloak the Norexan between castings).  Therefore, a fleet of three or four Norexan warbirds can destroy just about anything shy of an upgraded starbase.  It takes 8 military research stations to build the Norexan (but it has very few prerequisites, allowing you to fairly early access), so now you have your second tactic after the quick-kill.

The Romulans are also good team players.  Their economy is better than the other non-Borg races, making them a valuable ally in multiplayer.  Further, the Black Wind cruiser is able to quickly re-charge allies’ shields after battles (but not during, since recharging disables the target ship), making them a good addition to a fleet – have them follow behind and help out after battles.

Dominion:

• Type: research-heavy juggernaut
• Best for: Disciplined Players Only
• Strengths: Cap Ships, fleet buffs
• Weaknesses:  drawn-out battles and campaigns, moving quickly, aiding allies
• Preferred Cap Ship: One of everything

Description & Tactics: 

As psychoak has spent the last two years pointing out on this thread, the Dominion is really, really powerful if you know how to use them.  The flip side is that they stink if you don’t.  The Dominion is made up of a set of very, very powerful cap ships combined with a fleet of cheap, throw-away ships of limited combat effectiveness.  To build a powerful fleet, you need to have a lot of buffs that come from the cap ships and from research.

Any fleet should have at least three cap ships: a Leviathan, Enslaver, and the Cardassian cap ship (edit: as mentioned by psychoak below, the Devastator cap ship has the best support buff of all cap ships, and is thus also a must-have).  These will provide key buffs that improve the cheaper ships' performance.  Then you spam a lot of Jem’ Hadar ships along with a few Cardassian Barcus class that has repair abilities (though they tend to draw a lot of fire, unfortunately). 

For perspective, a good Enslaver Class can have over 20,000 shield points and 10,000 HP, plus do about 1000 DPS without any buffs or abilities.  That sounds undefeatable, but the drawback is that the Enslaver (which is a must-have for your fleet) moves as slow as molasses.  In the previous version of the mod wherein Romulan starbases could move, I think they could outrun the Enslaver (the Harbinger is your fast cap ship, but it doesn’t need to be in your main fleet b/c it doesn’t provide any buffs).  That makes progress slow, but it’s hard to stop the Dominion once they start to roll.

The downside to this is that when fleets gang up on the Doms (or when they try to take out an enemy choke point with both a starbase and fleet present), they stand to lose a lot.  It takes a very, very long time to recharge the shields of an Enslaver or Leviathan, making it very hard to take a risk with them.  When the tide starts to turn against you, running usually isn’t an option since the enemy can outrun your fleet and shoot you as you flee.  It takes a long, long time to rebuild too.

Edit: another point psychoak has made is that Dom stations are different than those of other races.  The trade station is actually a powerful offensive and defensive structure, providing good shield recharge, though you do have to either run to the nearest one or take time conquering planets then building them.  Also note that the Dom starbase has fairly weak base statistics, but has upgrades (requiring research) that make up for its perceived weakness.

Borg:

• Type: Juggernaut race
• Best for: Players who want to take on the galaxy, AI
• Strengths: Yes please
• Weaknesses:  Not so much
• Preferred Cap Ship: Yes please

Description & Tactics: 

It’s the Borg, the dedicated super-race.  Generally, the mod team expects the Borg get to be the lone player everyone else gangs up on, and they are designed accordingly (i.e., they have unfair advantages across the board).  Just start building and killing – you’ll figure it out.

I just checked the coding (haven’t actually played them yet), and it looks like the Borg cap ships can still steal enemy cap ships using the Borg Tractor Beam ability (used to be called “cutting beam” if memory serves).  If the target has no shields after the tractor beam is done, the ship is assimilated and the Borg take control.  This is easily the best ability in the entire game (or worst, if you are on the receiving end).  You can have an unlimited number of cap ships as long as your enemies keep sending them at you.  Enough said.

Not bad.  Only two major oopsies in the post.

The Devastator has the best buff for Jem'Hadar, not a ship you can pass on having in your steamroller fleet.

The tractor beam only assimilates ships that lose their shields in the first second or two, not for the duration of the ability.

Much appreciate the summary guide. Still trying to get a handle on properly using the Dominion. Deriving almost all fleet utility from Cap Ships is pretty foreign for me.

If any of the Modders are reading, some sort of support ship or starbase ability that aids in regenerating the Shields of a fleet for Dominion sure would be nice.

It's on the trade stations.

Quick question: can I use the skyboxes in my mod as a module? These are great!

Ofcourse you will be credited for the work

As long as credit is given knock yourself out.

@G-ADM_Prawn: Very good writing. Not sure if I understand SOA2 that much, but with the Romulan fleet support bonus, their strong heavy cruiser and the D’Deridex ability to "spit out" (it looks so ) more cruisers, they can have an incredibly strong late game fleet.

General question: The torpedo damage for most races looks relatively low compared to the other weapons. It seams really useless to research upgrades as a low number + X% is still a low number. Is there anything special I miss?

It's high damage, low rate of fire.  Initial volleys do a lot more damage than your sustained firefight will put out.

But no, they aren't balanced.