Cataract best with Strong Towers?

from Demigod Forums

Like many, I lament the fact that cataract is played so often online.   Here's the things I don't like about cataract relative to other maps:

1.  It really favors characters that can hold a lane on their own.  A match-up like UB/Torch/Reg vs. Sed/UB/Erebus is already a mismatch, but the mismatch is exacerbated in Cataract.  In Cararact, if you have three characters that can hold a lane on their own, it gives you a huge advantage in terms of letting someone run back to shop without losing flag advantage.  And I've faced a number of teams (I play PUG) that take all assassins on cataracts.  This is crazy- having monks is huge in cataracts, especially for the side lanes. 

2.  Conversely, cataract's setup is not the best for support characters.   Support characters need the room to quickly get near their allies or, in the case of TB, to cast a range attack where needed.  Cataract doesn't allow you to do this well, especially when you have to turn the corner.  TB, for example, seems a lot more effective to me in Prison and Leviathan than in Cataract.    Reg might be the exception with his ability to snipe across a lane, but even there,  you're still better with 3 tanks on Cataract.

3.  The side towers go down too easily.  You cannot abandon a side lane in Cataract vs. a good team because they will bang on the unguarded tower and take it down fast, even with Fort 1.  Which is why, again, you need to have demigods that can hold lanes (i.e. tanks). 

If you play with high towers, though, the dynamics change for the better.  Reg and TB can actually guard a lane, even if they don't always control the flag, because they have more cushion to hide behind the tower as needed.  Minion Erebus can't just mindlessly act like a bulldozer.   Demigods take the side towers more around levels 6-9 rather than levels 2-4, which makes for a more interesting game from a tactical perspective.  You can try and gank more because you don't have to worry so much about leaving a side lane abandoned early, which leads to some interesting play.

Thoughts?

 

demigod
6,017 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Generally I find that except for UB, the DGs that are going to kill normal towers quickly will do the same to high ones.  I just don't like the balance changes that come with a pacing shift, for example Oak is a beast mid to late game but just terrible early game, the increased tower strength is a huge boon to him.

Regulus is a strong character who really is fine from level 1-10, probably even all the way up to 12 or 14. If he's not effective enough then he should get some level 15 abilities which are actually useful.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I think towers really need armor upgrades...I don't know how their armor works, but you should be able to pump their resistance (as game choice) without affecting their damage. For instance 60% armor....they are ROCK towers after all

 

This armor should apply to all damages, including abilities, with the exception of qot and rook tower specific abilities

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Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

The overall tower health thing needs a boost. Citadel upgrades need tweaked so that upgrading towers to full health actually Happens >>

I do prefer high towers though. I hate losing towers before level 5 it frustates me to no end

The gold flags on cataract annoy me too, as soon as the first tower goes down that gold flag will be lost every 5 minutes. Personally I prefer Brothers and Leviathan to Cataract, be neither gets played often

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I've mentioned this before, but I really don't like the pacing shift that takes place - the game is drawn out and simply provides an avenue for players to hide from more organised, or simply better, opponents for longer; it encourages turtling while providing little benefits for doing so - the people who would've lost with Normal Towers are still going to lose. My 2 cents worth
:)

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

I think leviathan with High Towers is actually better.  Leviathan has a very weak tower configuration, and often towers won't even be within range to protect you. Unlike cataract where there are large groups of towers to run behind, There is no place to run in Leviathan.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Zechnophobe, reply 5
I think leviathan with High Towers is actually better.  Leviathan has a very weak tower configuration, and often towers won't even be within range to protect you. Unlike cataract where there are large groups of towers to run behind, There is no place to run in Leviathan.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting ZehDon, reply 4
I've mentioned this before, but I really don't like the pacing shift that takes place - the game is drawn out and simply provides an avenue for players to hide from more organised, or simply better, opponents for longer; it encourages turtling while providing little benefits for doing so - the people who would've lost with Normal Towers are still going to lose. My 2 cents worth

i kinda disagree.

high towers allow characters that would normally take longer to become efficient, to grow their levels safely without losing much ground early in the game. I think its just something many players arent use to and find it hard to adapt, that they find it a balancing issue.

It may alter the pace of the game a little, but does that make it unbalanced gameplay? 

just because oak for example, is not able to push towers early doesnt mean the gameplay is unbalanced. diff classes are meant for diff things. taking out towers is regs specialtyso he'll win in this department coz he has the range, but fails miserably in close combat.

 

 

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

dunno but i find it far more easier and faster to destroy towers early on as sedna or rook than as reg. indeed he can do it from distance but with pathetic dmg (early on ofcourse). and you can easaly push him back.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Would some1 mind clarifying what a 'high tower' is?  A lightning orb tower?  The only towers I know of are:  the base lightning towers, the shorter arrow towers, and ofc Rook towers... I've never heard 'high' tower b4....

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting insidious420, reply 9
Would some1 mind clarifying what a 'high tower' is?  A lightning orb tower?  The only towers I know of are:  the base lightning towers, the shorter arrow towers, and ofc Rook towers... I've never heard 'high' tower b4....

Towers with structure settings in the pre-game menu set to 'high'.  With this setting, towers have greater health and, as I recall, they also do more damage.  They become much harder to approach in the early game, especially with minions.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Ohh, sry I feel stooped.  90% of the time I do Panth, so I'm not used to custom settings, & this didn't state Custom games.  Thx 4 clarifying & sry for interrupting the thread.  Free bump :P

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Just played Cataract with high towers as my usual support QoT.

Shielding your teammates who then go into tower range very early in the match to literally waste all your mana is so frustrating, even after you ask them not to for multiple times. Then one of them died in a 3vs2 and blamed me for not being his personal shield generator. All while my Shamblers died seconds after creating them because they're so weak and also because of the f***** bug. When we were at WR8 first and all 3 at our citadel nobody even responded to my question about if one of them could buy angels so I could buy catas.

 

Today was the first time I sweared really hard at a teammate and almost rage quit.

Sometimes PuGing sucks. Bad.

 

/offtopic rant