erbus is pimp

mostly lose with him when either

a) other team plays nice toghther

my teammate is noob

I'm officially done with this. My point has been made. People like the poster above are killing me. Generals have support THEY SHOULDN"T BE ASSASSINS then. so good bye and let ignorance reign supreme

The post above you is correct, you're a bad player who wants things easy mode and nerfed because you can't compete. Learn to play IMFO. Generals who run assassin builds are indeed still weaker than actual assassins, you're probably running into Generals using Assassin builds who are GREAT at the Demigod they're using.

There is one problem with oak.. parasitic egg on another general = game over. Espcially on erebus since he has so many night stalkers. Dear god does it ever rape erebus....

As people have said though general are simply assassins with minions. Sedna and QoT are really the only pure support generals. Ithink people are just mad that simply running up and attacking a general doesn't mean they instanly win. Espcially with oak you want to fight him like a rook, wittle him down and abuse the fact he has no big heal other then potions. Also avoid fighting him near as many creeps as possible so surge of faith isn't as effective.

I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this poorly spelled bit of internetRAAAAAAAGE, but I'm not complaining about getting beaten or anything of that nature.

I'm complaining about the fact that Generals have little differntiation from Assasins other than they have access to some support abilities. Oak and Erebus are simply Assasins with little easily squished critters at their feet as well as access to a couple support abilities (in Erebus's case, they are what make him so powerful). QoT and Sedna are primarily support characters. Sedna is really the only character that makes good use of her minions: Oak and Erebus may as well not summon them at all, and QoT's shamblers are just there to be mulched. If anything, shamblers are a liability since they can be easily killed before QoT has a chance to mulch them. Furthermore, we may as well do away with the idols to summon generic units because they hardly make much of a difference, other than that they give some slight justification for calling Generals "Generals."

I'm just disappointed that in the end, Generals are not Generals at all. Call them something else, get rid of idols and gear that enhances minions, and make some relatively slight changes to account for the minions not being there anymore (for example, make QoT's mulch ability not rely on shamblers and cause an AoE effect around her; it would actually be more useful that way!)

In short: STOP LIVING IN DENIAL, DEVS, AND JUST SCRAP THE ENTIRE FAILED "GENERAL" CONCEPT!

Erebus is definately overpowered now, every game ive played he melts faces with no real skill involved whatsover.

What?  Use effective tactics matching the situation to win?  UNPOSSIBLE!

Why is he OP? wana show some proof as to why? give a single reason atlest other then "he kills me"

Generals do seem way more powerful now.  The patch notes suggest this, but they're way better than I thought.

Playing them with no minions, they seem better.  Sedna and QoT where pretty on par with UB and regulas before(while oak and erebus where underpowered, tb and rook where overpowered) now they are better when played without idols.  Now Erebus and Oak seem like they might be the best two.

Then if you play them /with/ minions, they're even better. 
The priests heal sooo much.  So so cost effecient compared to potions.  The new lower price is fine, but really they should heal less.  Or just heal a little bit less and them die much easier.

Siege archers weren't very good before, but also expensive.  Now, they're AMAZING.  Jesus is it like 150 damage each one with a 1sec refire rate?  That's as good as buying one of the 10k items.  Maybe it's 1.5 sec refire, but it's a ton for the cost.

Sure, minions were bad before, but really I thought it had more to do with cost, and of other items.  If Siege archers are firing 1 second faster, couldn't we just get the performance we have now by paying the 2250 for the archers and have an item that buffs all our minions attack rate by 30% instead of the measely 5% items usualy do?

I think the solution more should of been better synergy of items and skills with minions.  Like sedna's skill that buffs minion health and lowers cooldowns could do something like give sedna +25/50/75 health for each minion you control, so you'd want to have all 3 idols and 4 yeti's to get 750 more health.  Without things like that for skills, and items, I think it's going to be much harder to make it where Generals are good played without Minions, but aren't better played the exact same way with minions.

Right now I'm going to play a general just like an assassin, and just use priests to heal me for cheap and archers and them both to give me more dps.  I'm not speccing my generals skills, or getting +minion stat items, because they're pretty bad.  They'll be too good simply having the minion skills and items numbers simply raised, however, instead of reworking some things..

Also saying devs don't listen is BULL!
They fixed a ton of important things (stun overlapping, slow stacking, not knowing tele is coming and being at a disadvantage, op items) They fixed almost everything except the underpowered/useless items, and a few bugs(albeit 2 bad ones, and some new ones introduced with the overlay stuff)
Sure they didn't fix this.. but i mean i do have hope they will with the huge amont of things they did fix, even if it took so long for some problems that where since b1.

What we need to do is have the best players for each demigod have some matches together to get an idea.  Getting 40 kills and no deaths in a 25 minute game as Erebus doesn't mean much except that the enemies were noobs.

Its funny that if generals are OP the top 3 DGs on the pantheon are Unclean Beast TB and Rook.

I play Oak, and use a largely assassin build. Spirits\soul power\surge of faith\penitence\1 point in shield. With alot of success.

But my strategy hinges on conservative style, I focus on enemy creeps and avoid enemy assassins who arent a couple levels below me. I use the teleport favor item for a free escape, and pop shield and that means that if things are looking hairy I can still leg it or often teleport to safety. As a general the summons do help a ton and as Oak I really need my bishops and siege demolishers to both keep me on the front lines and help me take down buildings and enemy DGs. Oaks attack is pretty damn poweful though, I hit for 450-550 on the higher levels without items. My favorite tactic for larger games is to save every penny for the ring of the all father, but it really takes that 25k item to make Oak into a DG killer, as Oak lacks offensive spells that the Assassin demigods have coming out of their asses.

Good Erebus players do seem pretty damn powerful, but he dosent feel too OP, but he definetly seems more like an assassin than a general to me.

Dunno because people like to play them?

Like I said, that's just how I feel now.  It's my gut jdugement.  We have to have the best players of them all play.  Personally I think Erebus is amazing now, and rook is crap.  But that could just be that I'm good at erebus and bad with Rook, as they play very different.

just played a MP game useing rook and i did so well ina  2v1 match i made both the other players quit(although with the coding always possable they disc)

I was hiting for 700 a pop criting for 1200 erbus and oak have NEVER hit that hard for me, had 60% armor 7.0 speed etc.. genrals are genrals and assassin are assassin problem is people suck and wana blame balance.

 i have yet to see a single rook player who does take towers for his first skill and thats BAD unless you are playing with friends with a set role, take your dang slam so you can get some kills in, your first item needs to be the speed boots so you can chase runners and kill them etc.. but most just spam tower points and they become gimped.

if people took the time to become better they will win more.

thats my point its a BAD skill to take for your first skill you should NOT take it unless your playing with friends and your role is set before hand to use them.

take the slam you can get kills for gold for gearing up and get kills.

i mean kills vrs other demigods not the rts troops, you need gold and while you might get a few kills vrs AI demigods vrs a player who does the right skills will out kill you and get gold for upgrades faster= a win.

You obviously did badly since my games don't last long enough to get those sort of items, frankly.

ok you got me i suck so bad cause after all i said it took me  wait did i say how long i took? to win a 2v1 so ya i suck bad!!!!

This isn't about Balance. It's about basic gameplay - Generals do not play as advertised, and each revision seems to move them further away from what was promised, not closer.

My idea of a general is stronger units, more focus on zerg tactics and support.  Sit in the back, or rush the front of his minions~ weak damage but gains power with the more minions he or she has.

My idea of the assasin is the front line tank, that can take a beating and deal solo damage.  Nothing much more~  Though with all tanks it can be zerged if not careful and easily disposed of by a good general.  On the other hand the assasin has self better self preservation tools since they are essentially "alone"

Erebus is a bitch but not unstoppable. As for the rook IMO he is the most "general" type assasin and excels as a minion control/tower killer and i never buy the hammer slam skill, at later lvls can own generals (archer tower/tower of light shoulder and building)

-can't seem to delete myself so can a mod pls?

sorry for trolling and copy/pasted apology, it's just quicker

Is that a fact? I'm still new to the game. If Generals get minions/idols, what do Assassins get to make them unique? Just seeing some of the abilities so far, I can't seem to tell. I see Torch Bearer has auras that buff minions, who is an Assassin, and Vampire Lord abilities that make him a great Assassin, and he can still get those minion idols.

Minions are way too weak. So Generlas must be able to pick on a assasin in 1 on 1. If i play i play oak and i jsut get priests for healing (no other minions, just to weak not worth the money).

If i summon spirits i send them back to base and let them wait there. So i don't have to fear they die to a stupid random AoE spell and still get the dmg bonus. Minions are to useless atm to make generals mostly relay on them.

AI Rook or Human Rook?

Items? If so which ones?

Level differences?

Skill point allocation?

Were you being shot by arrow towers or towers of light?

These are 5 factors that could enlighten us further on your described scenario with the Vampire Lord and Rook and without them true appraisal of the fight cannot be made.

Rook and TB were Normal and Hard AI respectively (I was trying to get my friend acclimated to the game so I thought I was dumbing it down), and I was The Oak with my friend being the UB.  At first I had the level advantage, Theurgist's Hat, and level 2 idols still shy of level 10.  The Rook (normal) met me in the middle and at full health ripped me to shreds.  In the next few meetings he'd outlevel me and push us back to our citadel.

Despite San's opinion, I shifted momentum (late game) with my friend and we pushed them back to the middle and eventually won.  In the middle of the winning and losing and winning and losing (which lasted around 20-30 mins) various items were bought, idols were upgraded, etc. and it made no real difference.

Provided I did not play as the Vampire Lord, but I did play a General none-the-less, and I did so post patch.

We can't take single, isolated, and subjective experiences and make them universal fact (i.e. Lord Erebus is OP).