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P5yy
Join Date 06/2007
+19

Idea to balance Vasari Starbase

March 30, 2009 5:10:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have an idea for the Vasari starbase , subject to balance.

When it is moving it cannot fire.

When activated , the Vasari starbase requires 5 seconds for engines to power up , then it can move around , then 5 seconds to power down. After powering down engines , it can fire again

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P5yy
Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #1 March 30, 2009 5:12:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have an idea: Vasari starbase is fine.

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Haree78
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #2 March 30, 2009 5:18:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Astax,
reply 1
I have an idea: Vasari starbase is fine.

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P5yy
top vasari
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #3 March 30, 2009 6:56:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Astax,
reply 1
I have an idea: Vasari starbase is fine.

i have to agree with astax

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tyr222
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #4 March 31, 2009 1:11:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

well if we did something like that i might find merit in useing another race other than vasari

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top vasari
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #5 March 31, 2009 4:24:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

id have to change my name

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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #6 March 31, 2009 4:39:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Silly you, other races are useful and equally fun to play. 

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top vasari
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #7 March 31, 2009 9:03:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Astax,
reply 6
Silly you, other races are useful and equally fun to play. 

lol i play the other races some times but I play with vasari better

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Eron_theVengful
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #8 April 4, 2009 3:47:40 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think something SHOULD be done to Vasari starbase.  Too many times have I seen the tactic of "offensive SB building" where the vasari player will build an SB behind his fleet when attacking an enemy planet and then have it swim through the gravity well destroying all in it's path.  I don't agree with this strategy at all.  Either make it impossible to build a SB in an enemy controlled gravity well, or don't let the SB move and fire simultaneously.

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Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #9 April 4, 2009 3:50:54 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Eron_theVengful,
reply 8
I think something SHOULD be done to Vasari starbase.  Too many times have I seen the tactic of "offensive SB building" where the vasari player will build an SB behind his fleet when attacking an enemy planet and then have it swim through the gravity well destroying all in it's path.  I don't agree with this strategy at all.  Either make it impossible to build a SB in an enemy controlled gravity well, or don't let the SB move and fire simultaneously.

That is what it is suppose to do. Learn to adapt

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #10 April 4, 2009 10:47:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

How bout lower its slot count to 7. Idea is the engines take up a slot(kinda like it should have anyway). Then the other races who already lose a spot to aux gov just to defend the planet wont be AS far behind in usefulness.

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SnoopDaggo
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #11 April 5, 2009 12:46:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Alright, here is the strategy, unpack a few Trebs at the edge of the gavity well, make sure to bring paladins and/or archers to protect them. When you see the starbase coming your way, move the infantry towards it. But the most important thing is that you take a lot of cheap armored units such as the Elite Skirmisher to soak up the damage. Make tons and tons of Elite Skirmishers they are perfect for diverting the Starbase's fire while your Trebs take it down. Be sure to have all the archer armor upgrades at the Blacksmith and research Siege Engineers at the University for maximum Treb pwnage!!.

 

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Eron_theVengful
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Reply #12 April 5, 2009 7:30:48 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

+1 for an AoE 2 reference (god I miss that game....)

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VarekRaith
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #13 April 5, 2009 7:43:37 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting MindsEye,
reply 10
How bout lower its slot count to 7. Idea is the engines take up a slot(kinda like it should have anyway). Then the other races who already lose a spot to aux gov just to defend the planet wont be AS far behind in usefulness.

Why?  The Advent and TEC SBs have mass killing abilities that the Vasari one doesn't.  Its ability to move negates that.  The Vasari SB is fine as is.

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #14 April 5, 2009 8:03:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I would call the ability to move into a fleet and target 12 at once mass killing.

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transitive
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #15 April 6, 2009 9:06:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you have to realize the Vasari SB is considered the primary anti-Starbase weapon of the Vasari faction. Vas don't have an equivalent of Ogrovs or Starfish, there are no special ships for taking out structures and starbases. Instead the Orkulas 2nd weapon system (the Disintegrators) deals anti-structure type damage. additionally there's a research tech that makes it build faster in grav wells that have enemies present. the thing is really designed explicitly to be used offensively to take out enemy defenses. 

 

its obviously incredibly dangerous once its got a few upgrades going (particularly the frontal shield and its weapon upgrades) but starbases, Orkulas included, aren't really much of a threat when freshly built. mediocre weapons and about as much durability as a level 1 cap ship when freshly built. its probably worth diverting your attention from the Vasari fleet to the Orkulas so you can frag the thing before it gets upgraded to super evil death machine level. 

 

 

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N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #16 April 8, 2009 8:41:26 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting transitive,
reply 15
its obviously incredibly dangerous once its got a few upgrades going (particularly the frontal shield and its weapon upgrades) but starbases, Orkulas included, aren't really much of a threat when freshly built. mediocre weapons and about as much durability as a level 1 cap ship when freshly built. its probably worth diverting your attention from the Vasari fleet to the Orkulas so you can frag the thing before it gets upgraded to super evil death machine level.
A little exaggerated (149 Pulse damage against 7 targets + 3k HP + 2?k shields) is a tiny little whack over a level 1 cap. Still, a fresh out of the box starbase is pretty easily destroyed by a small LRM gangup.
Bomb it while it is building and the moment it starts shooting it will have 200 shields and 500 life = a light frigate with a tiny bit more armor.

The only thing that makes Orkys offensively capable are Overseers.
5 overseers + migrator + some resources + 6 seconds = 2% constructed Orky with 100% (3k) hit points.
Wipe Overseers first, ignore skirantra if he brings any, bomb the octopus.

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crashmatusow
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #17 April 8, 2009 9:26:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

target cap is 5...

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unkn0wnx
Join Date 06/2008
+1
Reply #18 April 8, 2009 9:33:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SnoopDaggo,
reply 11
Alright, here is the strategy, unpack a few Trebs at the edge of the gavity well, make sure to bring paladins and/or archers to protect them. When you see the starbase coming your way, move the infantry towards it. But the most important thing is that you take a lot of cheap armored units such as the Elite Skirmisher to soak up the damage. Make tons and tons of Elite Skirmishers they are perfect for diverting the Starbase's fire while your Trebs take it down. Be sure to have all the archer armor upgrades at the Blacksmith and research Siege Engineers at the University for maximum Treb pwnage!!.

 

LOL.  Don't forget the knights!

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N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #19 April 9, 2009 2:12:22 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting crashmatusow,
reply 17
target cap is 5...
5. I stand corrected. Though I'm sure I've seen my SB shoot more without Max. Firepower upgrade. Maybe I was fooled by the fact that the disintegrator arrays shoot two blasts from different cannons at every target.
Whatever, it is still not lvl1 cap, but it is helpless for as long as you're building it. So it really ain't OP.

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JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #20 April 9, 2009 9:41:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

So it really ain't OP.

I think that the Vasari SB is actually UP in its intended role. Sure, the Orkulas is EXTREMELY STRONG, but it is incredibly unreliable for taking out enemy SBs.

Even if you manage to build it AND upgrade it with weapons and health, that does not always swing the battle in your favour as I found out today online . . .

 

 

In an online match, an Arganev plus a some miserable fighters killed my Orkulas with 2 weapon and 3 health upgrades!

Repair bays kept the TEC SB alive. They healed the SB faster then I could damage it!!!

In fact, my SB could not kill a single extractor due to the repair bays. Even with weapon upgrades.

Is it just me or is this a perfect example of extreme irony?

 

 

 

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N3rull
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Reply #21 April 9, 2009 9:58:48 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, you made a mistake of throwing the starbase alone (it looks like it from your description).

I too feel that the disintegrator arrays seem to be more effective against units than structures, rather than the other way around.
As in - they hurt ships badly while not being anywhere near 4 bomber squads when used against structures.

However, it isn't all that bad. Has high hitpoints when upgraded (if you manage to upgrade it - Vas vs Vas is screwed), decent damage (for the price), can defend itself. Needs support, yeah, but it's not something that's gonna disappear in 3 seconds.

Good idea is having 5 overseers around. They REALLY increase the survivability on the SB. Assuming 3 casts of nanite armor per Overseer (they can do more, but let's assume they made a jump or two or something) it is 15 casts for 3750 extra health over 6 seconds. Very useful imo.

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JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #22 April 9, 2009 10:12:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, you made a mistake of throwing the starbase alone (it looks like it from your description).

Actually I brought 10 Enforcers and several carriers. The TEC SB crapped out so many flak frigates, carriers etc. though that I was overwhelmed. Overseers died to SC.

 

I too feel that the disintegrator arrays seem to be more effective against units than structures, rather than the other way around.

Exactly. Every TEC player makes lots of repair bays and the disintegrators did PATHETIC damage.

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