New Super Abilities for Custom Races?

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from GalCiv2 Forums
So I was thinking at work, because it's mindless work, about the possibility of the devs adding new Super Abilities that don't necessarily correspond with any of the main races, but are strictly to add more variety to custm races. Would this be viable? I even have a few ideas. I tried to make these as balanced as I could, despite the fact that the normal Super Abilities aren't quite balanced anyway (Super Anhialator anyone?)

Super Capitalist: Your Credits are worth twice and much in the trade window, and Economic buildings produce a small amount of happiness. (Alternatively to the happiness, can build two Economic capitals, similar to the Super Scientist ability below.)

Super Raider: Gain access to the Raider module in the Starship creator. This module is fairly large, but will disguise your ships as pirate ships and allow you to attack freighters  without declaring war. Super Raiders get extra credits from destroying freighters.

Super Scientist: 20% chance on colonizing a new planet to discover a low level tech. Can build two Technological capitals.

Super Builder: Can put two costruction modules on a ship, letting one ship build two modules on a starbase. Galactic Acheivements and Super Projects build 25% faster

Super Imperialist: Colony Maintenance reduced by half. Influence conquest easier. (Possibly two colony modules allowed per ship, or faster building Colony ships.)

Super Stealth: Stealth Modules can be built on ships. Ships with this module cannot be seen on the minimap, and cannot be seen on the main map unless within one tile per two sensor ability of a ship, or 3 tiles of any planet. Stealth Modules are extremely large.

Super Politician: Gain an extra 15% Economic Bonus and 5% Diplomacy Bonus when your party controls the government.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As a note, you DO know you can put more than one colony module on a ship, right? AFAIK, only DL ever had the one-only limitation, and to be honest I'm not even sure it still does.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
We've asked for more super abilities but none of the devs want to make more. Disappointing, I know.....

Other than that most are good. I like the raider one, the only problem would be the micromanaging but they could add a automation for that.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I believe that it's said that Super Powers are hardcoded, so we can't do it ourselves. I'm sorry that's the way it is, because I really like your ideas.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I had some ideas for these as well when I was designing custom races in Dark Avatar. Most of all I really wish that you could design your own super abilities and use them in the custom races editor, but oh well.

Super Philosopher: A race with super philosopher is capable of changing their ethical alignment at any time for a price. (perhaps they could also start out with Xeno Ethics set to their default alignment)

Super Production: A race with Super Production can basically set their production slider to over 100%, or perhaps has a higher threshold so that 100% means more. Either way, they are capable of higher output at higher cost.

Super Conquerer: When capturing an enemy planet(whether by gift, invasion, or influence)a race with Super Conquerer keeps all buildings on that planet, even if they do not have the technologies for those buildings. (This ability would only work in twilight of the Arnor)

Super Mercenary: This race gets a higher value for trading ships or military technologies to others, and gains a diplomacy bonus with that race when they do so(with a maximum bonus, similar to "we appreciate your past help" only valued less.

Super Terror: All races suffer diplomacy penalties as long as a race with Super Terror is in the game, making alliances harder and wars more frequent.

Super Traditionalist: A race with Super Traditionalist can upgrade ships for less money than other races, and a Super Traditionalist's ships gain experience faster than other race's ships.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This topic again? You may wish to check out an old post of mine then.

WWW Link

Feel free to make comments.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This topic again? You may wish to check out an old post of mine then.WWW Link


Oh, thanks. I didn't know about that thread.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As a note, you DO know you can put more than one colony module on a ship, right? AFAIK, only DL ever had the one-only limitation, and to be honest I'm not even sure it still does.


But it only has the use of one.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As a note, you DO know you can put more than one colony module on a ship, right? AFAIK, only DL ever had the one-only limitation, and to be honest I'm not even sure it still does.
But it only has the use of one.


So you're talking about a colony ship that can colonize multiple planets? Interesting...

Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
We've asked for more super abilities but none of the devs want to make more. Disappointing, I know.....

Other than that most are good. I like the raider one, the only problem would be the micromanaging but they could add a automation for that.


I believe that it's said that Super Powers are hardcoded, so we can't do it ourselves. I'm sorry that's the way it is, because I really like your ideas.


That really is a pity, because I think there's a whole lot of potential for increased customization here. I find that Super Abilities, more than anything, really define how a race is played.

Desmond, I really like the Super Philosopher and Super Terrorist abilities.

Perhaps if we keep the ideas coming and keep the subject alive the Devs will reconsider, because, again, the customization factor is one of the greatest things about this game.

Here's some more

Super Spacefarer: Starbases can have Drive modules built for 2000 bc, allowing it to move 1 parsec per week. Bonus to Logistics and range.

Super Nativist: Race's home planet gets 100% bonus to research, military, and social production. colony modules cost twice and much.

Super Crafter: Super crafters start with the ability to build unique trade goods (Stellar jewelry: +happiness, Precursor Souveniers: +Loyalty, Robotic Servitors, +production) and your standard trade goods are worth more to other races

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually I think in ToA it's the racial tech trees that really define the races now, to my mind super abilities are almost redundent now.

And with the tech editor I think I could add cheap early tech that represented a sort of super ability.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
To reply 5:

Super Conquerer: When capturing an enemy planet(whether by gift, invasion, or influence)a race with Super Conquerer keeps all buildings on that planet, even if they do not have the technologies for those buildings. (This ability would only work in twilight of the Arnor)


This is already the case for all races in DA. Even for those in the queue and not built yet.

To reply #9

So you're talking about a colony ship that can colonize multiple planets? Interesting...


I think the original post was talking about constuctor modules, not colony modules. Someone early on seemed to get it wrong.

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually I think in ToA it's the racial tech trees that really define the races now, to my mind super abilities are almost redundent now.

And with the tech editor I think I could add cheap early tech that represented a sort of super ability.


That sounds a bit promising, but I haven't played the beta yet, nor how I read anything about a tech editor. I'm not sure how creative you'd be able to get with it, however, as far as unique modules like the spore module or my suggested Raider and Stealth modules, or abilities that go beyond the general framework of the game.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That sounds a bit promising, but I haven't played the beta yet, nor how I read anything about a tech editor. I'm not sure how creative you'd be able to get with it, however, as far as unique modules like the spore module or my suggested Raider and Stealth modules, or abilities that go beyond the general framework of the game.


We haven't seen the TA expansion's tech tree editor yet. I think it's likely that it will allow re-naming, re-arranging and changing the stats for features already in the game, but not adding brand new features like cloaking, starbases that move, etc.

Here's something that doesn't get mentioned often enough (IMO):

While it's cool to think up additions to the game, many of these things might require brand new AI coding. Your AI opponents have to know how to use it effectively, or defend against it. Without that, a fun new feature just becomes a player exploit. It's not as easy as just adding the feature itself. For example, consider the new Terror Stars in the TA expansion. The devs didn't just add that new hardware to the game -- they also had to make sure the AI knows at what point in the game it makes sense to start building a TS, how to deploy and defend TS's, and how to prioritize attacking an enemy TS when it appears on their horizon. That would apply to LOTS of cool player ideas for new things added to the game, like cloaked ships. There has to be AI coding along with every major new feature like this, that isn't already in the game.

I think that's why the new TA tech editor will probably be limited to re-arranging and changing the stats of what we'll be getting in the stock TA tech trees. The AI knows how to cope with that, and will (hopefully) be able to cope with whatever we can come up with in the editor for custom race tech trees.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That sounds a bit promising, but I haven't played the beta yet, nor how I read anything about a tech editor. I'm not sure how creative you'd be able to get with it, however, as far as unique modules like the spore module or my suggested Raider and Stealth modules, or abilities that go beyond the general framework of the game.We haven't seen the TA expansion's tech tree editor yet. I think it's likely that it will allow re-naming, re-arranging and changing the stats for features already in the game, but not adding brand new features like cloaking, starbases that move, etc.Here's something that doesn't get mentioned often enough (IMO):While it's cool to think up additions to the game, many of these things might require brand new AI coding. Your AI opponents have to know how to use it effectively, or defend against it. Without that, a fun new feature just becomes a player exploit. It's not as easy as just adding the feature itself. For example, consider the new Terror Stars in the TA expansion. The devs didn't just add that new hardware to the game -- they also had to make sure the AI knows at what point in the game it makes sense to start building a TS, how to deploy and defend TS's, and how to prioritize attacking an enemy TS when it appears on their horizon. That would apply to LOTS of cool player ideas for new things added to the game, like cloaked ships. There has to be AI coding along with every major new feature like this, that isn't already in the game.I think that's why the new TA tech editor will probably be limited to re-arranging and changing the stats of what we'll be getting in the stock TA tech trees. The AI knows how to cope with that, and will (hopefully) be able to cope with whatever we can come up with in the editor for custom race tech trees.


You think it's likely? It's certain! You tell me, how would it be possible to allow us to have an editor to actually create new game mechanics... short of just opening up the .exe for us to make the game however we wish? It's not freeware, guys.

Super Abilities were an effort by the devs to distinguish between the races--in TA, we have that with the unique tech trees.

The reason why the devs (probably) don't want to add all of these suggested Super Abilities is simple... it's hard! Adding a tech is easy... say that I wanted a new Economics tech to come after Hyperwarp... HyperEconomy (+300% economy on that planet)! "Your Economy on Hyperwarp!" +50 economics, adds new wonder... HYPERREACTOR!

Well, that would be easy enough. Plug in the name, the prerequisite, the ability points it adds, and the buildings it unlocks. And the description.

But a Super Ability? That means inventing new code, fixing hundreds of bugs, balancing the game, and, again... INVENTING NEW CODE!
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
the devs didn't just add that new hardware to the game -- they also had to make sure the AI knows at what point in the game it makes sense to start building a TS, how to deploy and defend TS's, and how to prioritize attacking an enemy TS when it appears on their horizon.


Yes... but this part

just add that new hardware to the game


Is not a 'just'! That's very hard!
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It all really depends on what the priorities of the devs are. I am fully aware that there would be a lot of work involved in something like this. I also know that the devs have said that they intend to constantly work on this game to make it better. If they decide that customization is a big deal, then this would be a possible way to do it.
The AI is already getting modified on a fairly consistent basis.

Yes, it may be difficult, but I have every confidence in the devs, should they decide that this is the way to go. They may not, and I will be disapointed, but either way I'll play the game :P
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It all really depends on what the priorities of the devs are. I am fully aware that there would be a lot of work involved in something like this. I also know that the devs have said that they intend to constantly work on this game to make it better. If they decide that customization is a big deal, then this would be a possible way to do it. The AI is already getting modified on a fairly consistent basis.Yes, it may be difficult, but I have every confidence in the devs, should they decide that this is the way to go. They may not, and I will be disapointed, but either way I'll play the game


Look. We already have race distinction: custom techs and buildings and modules and and and...

Once SD codes the editors, we have UNLIMITED possibility to mod techs and buildings.

But if they spent that time on making a super ability, then all we would have is one super ability.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Look. We already have race distinction: custom techs and buildings and modules and and and...

Once SD codes the editors, we have UNLIMITED possibility to mod techs and buildings.

But if they spent that time on making a super ability, then all we would have is one super ability.


I sense a bit of frustration there. I'll point out again that I wasn't fortunate enough to get into the TotA beta, and I haven't heard enough about the tech and building editors to put the kind of faith you are in them. I have no doubt that they'll be interesting. You say unlimited, but I somehow doubt I'd be able to replicate my Super Raider idea or Desmond's Super Philosopher idea, wich add entirely new mechanics that don't exist already. Additionally you speak as if they'd take as much time to code one super ability as they would coding the entire system for editing techs, which, as unfamiliar with coding as I am, seems a little hard to swallow. Again I realize it wouldn't be simple, but neither is creating a tech editor. As I said, it's wherever the dev's priorities are.

I don't want this to become a flame war. And further, even if they totally leave super abilities behind as a game concept, some of these ideas may be worth looking at in another form. In any case, I don't see how discussing it hurts anything.

Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'll point out again that I wasn't fortunate enough to get into the TotA beta


FYI, the beta is open to everyone. You just have to pay the pre-order price for the expansion, so you can still try it if you're interested. It's worth the money (IMO) if you're planning on getting the TA expansion anyway, and can tolerate it not being quite 100% polished. We should be seeing the tech tree editor soon, and that will give everyone a better idea of what's do-able in that area.

And further, even if they totally leave super abilities behind as a game concept, some of these ideas may be worth looking at in another form. In any case, I don't see how discussing it hurts anything.


Sure, it's fine to talk about new ideas like this, as long as we all realize that we're basically talking about things that might be added to GalCiv3 when it shows up a few years down the road, and not something Stardock is likely to add to the current game.

The devs have said that TA is the last expansion for GalCiv2. The main focus in the expansion is giving each race a unique tech tree, and then balancing the AI so it can deal with that. Plus, we'll get editors for custom racial tech trees, and custom map and scenario editors so we can make user-created campaigns. That should extend the lifetime of GalCiv2 out a bit longer, but we're not going to get anything that requires major changes in the game engine. Stardock is turning its attention now towards the upcoming fantasy strategy game.

If there's frustration in the thread, I think it's just based on that... the distinction between what's do-able for GalCiv2/TA, and what has to wait a few years for GalCiv3. As long as we're clear about what we're talking about, we can discuss any cool new ideas for the game.

Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You say unlimited, but I somehow doubt I'd be able to replicate my Super Raider idea or Desmond's Super Philosopher idea


How can you 'somehow doubt'? The answer is obviously 'of course not!'.

Additionally you speak as if they'd take as much time to code one super ability as they would coding the entire system for editing techs, which, as unfamiliar with coding as I am, seems a little hard to swallow.


Erm, 'lol'? If you've never even dabbled in programming, then OK, though. I'll explain.

It would be fairly easy to code a tech tree editor. Not easy... but fairly easy. Of course, at the level of user-friendliness that Stardock will certainly do it, it will be slightly easier.

Remember, the Tech editor introduces nothing new. The functionality that the Tech Tree editor will introduce is already in place... you can mod files. However, the editor will present a GUI, so it will be a lot easier to use.

Now, a super ability! Do you not realize that introducing a super ability with new mechanics means inventing new code? INVENTING NEW MECHANICS?! I'm sure that that would take much longer than an editor!