Late game enonomy

Need a little bit more info but One thing I have noticed.

I usually don't have much trouble with money end game.


Look at info net. You have it way too early in your build cue. It's a high maintenece item with better benefit lower cost items later in your cue.

Also, you need not the triad of fusion, antimatter, pp's and manuf center but at a handful of planets where you're building big ships and/or wonders. If you're pressed, eliminate the fusion pp (it's the more expensive to maintain I believe) at non-essential production centers.

Also, if you're taking enemy planets be wary of the following and disband them.

All ship increasing things like starship foundry.
Virtual reality networks (5 maint when it does the same thing as much cheaper stuff which the puter doesn't build)
cultural exchange 4 maint for not much benefit. Your wonders and starbases will do far better culturally, cheaper.



Move up your banking center to 3rd in your cue.
Stock markets are a quicker build than econ exchange, move that up considerably too.


Stadium isn't listed anywhere? I take it you don't have extravaganza yet? Also consider the +10% econ techs and +trade techs. They help.

Also try selling some trade goods and techs and perhaps getting that tribute up.


But it isn't totally uncommon to have to reduce your spending to about 50. for awhile if you don't have much moola coming in via tribute (long term deals for stuff count as tribute in the budget)

Neural net is a huge maintenence item. Move it lower in your cue.

Mine usually looks about like this.

Soil
Habitat
Bank
Fusion
Lab
Stadium
Stock Market
Teleporters
Anti Matter
Terra
Res Centre
Econ exchange
....
...
...

Well actually my queue is ....

soil
hab
mfg
fusion
antimater
banking
research
eco exch
gal res
res cent
stock market
neural net
info net
terriforming(although I sometimes move this up)

teleporters(is thrown in about when I get it).

As far as selling TGs, there was no money left in the universe left after selling tech. So the tribute runs out and the AIs are at like -30k to - 110k.

As for the stadium, I used to have it in there but for 2bc maintenence, I didn't figure it was worth the 5% eco boost. At Normal difficulty, I didn't need it for moral.

I didn't check the AIs planets, so i'll keep that in mind.

I figured I needed high production on all planets so I could build the rest of the queue faster.

I believe that I already had extravaganza. But that only gets me a stadium and +10 diplomacy and leads to Magesty(I, II, & III) all plusses to diplomacy.

Oh, I guess I forgot to mention I only had two techs listed on my tech screen, I forget exactly, but it was something like planetary creation and 4D wormholes, or some late techs like that.


B

This may be a stupid, uninformed response but...

Keep in mind that as your production abilities improve, you may need to lower your production slider. You may have such incredible manufacturing abilities that it would take the materials and energy of a small solar system for you to peak out at 100%. This is quite expensive.

I have to agree. Your production probably far outstrips your economy. Dump those and you can set your slider to 100%, ... but why bother? Set your spending slider down and you have room to grow!

~SDC~

Max production everywhere is a bad idea. Just pick a few regional capitals as shipyards and wonder planets and give them all the neat stuff. Strip out the power plants and advanced research facilities from the lesser planets. That will save a bundle. Sure, the lesser planets may develop slower and research points will take a hit, but if you already have a dominate position you are going to win anyway and do not need the maintanence costs that come with the extras. Of course, I come from a pretty minimalistic approach to project building myself. Besides a flashy capital with everything on it and a couple of key production systems, I keep my build que fairly lean everywhere else.

I usually don't even bother with info nets except at one or two planets with all the research improvements - a lot of maintenance, for not much real benefit. By the time I research them, I don't need the extra research capacity anyway, cause setting research spending at 100% would send me bankrupt...

And for things to scrap when you capture other planets - if the planet's secure and you're culturally dominant in the region, you can trash planet def, system def, and all the cultural resistance buildings (like propoganda center). Just those improvements cost something like 20 bcs a turn to maintain.

All my planets end up with everything.. and i still endup making money

Sell lower level techs to minor races with low diplomacy abilities. You can usually sell stuff like "Corvette Technology" and such to a minor race for 200 BC per turn for up to 40 or more turns. This income shows up as "Tribute".

You can also sell techs to friendly major races. It is good because even though you give them something advanced they cannot usually use because they run out of money paying tribute to you and run a deficit economy preventing them from building anything.

I usually have at least 1000 BC per turn as tribute for sold techs.

Late in the game I sell all my tech and trade goods (except translators) to the minor races and get 1000 bc per turn for a long time. (they can't win the game anyway.)

If you ar powerful you can get into an alliance that forces you into war with weaker civs and really extort them for lots of cash and tech for peace. (The red guys)

I also find that sending all of the trade ships to one planet only and overloading it with trade and speed bonases on the starbases can get you 1000 bs per turn.

The other thing is the economic resources, late in the game when you have the tech to realy exploit those the cash just flows in.

I had power plants and info nets on all but a few of my planets with the production slider at 100 in my last game on challenging. At one point I had 150,000 bc in the bank. very cool.

50% tax?

Sheesh that's way too much, I spend at 100% closer to 25% tax maximum... Big income for me almost always comes from trade.

My problem was that I tech whored the AIs so early that by the time late game came around everyone was broke even though I had a TON to sell them.

B

Beware! Those minors will pass your tech right along to your enemies! I still usually only sell useless techs to minors until I'm pretty sure the majors have the military techs, etc. Then I'm free to sell them to the minors.

By the time I sell my techs its late in the game, I am mostlikly going to win, I could prabably win right then if I went for an alliance victory...I just want all or most of the planets on the map and need to keep my economy going.

In this game that I had the backbone of my fleet was defenders and I had an aliance with the dregs, and all my trade with them while I culturally converted them right out of the game. Tech was almost irrelivant.
[Message Edited]

Theo - So you don't trade your good technologies to majors? No wonder you're having trouble at the higher difficulties. I'd happily sell battleship technology to someone I was at war with, rather than have them get it some other way that doesn't benefit me at all. The only time I don't trade a tech is when I'm worried it'll allow them to beat me to a wonder/TG.


I think the reason for late game economy problems such as bpleshek's is the massive research bonus. It simply isn't possible to earn enough to pay for high research % and 100% spend rate when it gets that high. I suspect that things like Galactic Research Centres are fairly useless if you're already spending more than you can afford; all they do is increase the amount you could research if you could afford it, and cost you 5 per turn in maintenance. Research resources are better since the bonus is two-thirds free.



~SDC~

Downie,

I eventually do sell good techs to the majors, but I try to make sure I am in a better position than them. You could be right, that could be my downfall. I just hate to get ahead in tech and them hand an AI a means to build ships to crush me... LOL

Couple points:
1) can't sell tech (tech whore) at maso, and it is possible to build an economy without it.
2) If your economy is entirely dependant on trade you can lose a big game because your trading partner goes to war with you and your economy can't recover.
3) late game economy is entirely driven my morale IMHO. I spend most on my time fixing morale issues on the lowest third of my planets. I try not to space colonists -- rather I send them to a 26+ planet and max out at 100B.
4) build bank (zero maintenance) before manufacturing. try it and see if you don't agree. The econ swing is huge.

I just finished a small map maso game where I had 100% tax and 100% expenditures and was still turning a profit with 90% approval rating.

My queue for what it's worth:

soil
bank
habitat
entertain
stadium
fusion
embasy
mfg center
stock market
teleporters
multimedia
antimatter
econ exchange
trade center (I always play good)
terraforming
harmony
VR center
(all research like neural net)

The reality is, anti-matter is almost always researched before stadium etc., but ideally this is where I put things. I never build ship improvements, planetary defences, etc.

Econ is all, and low morale cripples econ

Cheers!
-- clh

That's most of the problem.

You have far too much research.
As already stated, Infonets are worth nothing, scrap them all. Lower you research spendign rather than the whole empire spending. You will see a decrease in your cost.
Also, scrap all research buildings on planets that don't produce much research, unless you need the influence bonus.
In fact, just scrap all buildings except +econ/+morale on planets that don't produce much.


That's very very weird on small, even with abundant planets.
How many trade routes do you have? How many aliens trade with you? You should, on this map size, have much more income come from trade than from tax, even without more than 1 +50% starbase. Do the ai's trade with you? They should not be allowed to trade between themselves. Check out all of them who trade with one another, and offer them whatever it takes to have them at war. This will free their trade routes so they'll set up new trade routes towards you.