Urgent Care should be called Eventual Care

Wasted another day at the Dr.

This morning my 8yr old complained that his leg hurt so badly he didn't want to walk on it.  He had been complaining about leg pain for the last couple of weeks but I thought it was just growing pains.  I looked into leg pain in kids and found out that complaint about pain in a localized position is reason for concern.  Growing pains tend to be in joints and tend to move around.

So I helped him and his brother to the car after attempting to make an appt with the pediatrician.   Her office was only open from 9-3 and it is the day before Memorial weekend so she was totally booked.  I decided to take him to Urgent Care since it is only about a mile away.

Things looked encouraging since there were only two people in the waiting room when we signed in.  Lots of people kept flowing in and out but they were mostly lab patients gettine blood workd done.  An hour of waiting and they had only taken one person in to see the doctor!  15 mins later they took the other person ahead of us.  I then asked one of the many nurses standing around chatting if they had any idea of how long we would be waiting.  They said we should be next and that was all they knew.  I asked if seeing 2 people an hour seemed reasonable to them.  They said they usually see up to 4/hr.  I don't think they should be bragging about that!

After 1.5hrs waiting we were taken in to a new room to wait.  At about 2.25 hrs into our adventure we were finally blessed by the presence of the doctor.  Did he or any of the nurses apologize for the wait?  No.  Did this piss me off...you bet ya!

I felt taken for granted because they know that you will due anything you have to to find out what is wrong with your child.  So you will just take whatever service they throw your way and you should just be happy you got it.  They didn't even give me any idea of what was going on!

Nothing showed up on the xray but the dr said we should follow up with an orthopedic specialist and get an MRI because there might be vascular problems with his hip and/or thigh.  We also should keep weight off that leg and make him use crutches.

Over 3hrs to find out we should go to another doctor.  Argh!

14,868 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top
bad doctors, they need to take parated2k's philosophy on doing their jobs, yep yep yep
Reply #2 Top
souds bad, but when you look on the bright side at least you can get the care you need to keep your child healthy. That is how I tend to look at it when I go to the doctor which is often because I have high bloog pressure and my current job gives my body alot of abuse.
Reply #3 Top
I once went to a doc with an appointment, to change bandage on an abcess. After 45 minutes waiting, I walked out.

Seems that Docs think their time is more important than your time.

Not! Lets see what happens when a virus infects their computer and I tell them I will be around in a week! (it actually happened, just not the week part).

Sorry Jill. That is unexcuseable!
Reply #4 Top
Danny, I'll have to look at ParaTed's philosophy I guess.

Joe, you sound like a kind hearted person. I only pray that my son does indeed get the care he needs. We learned nothing from this doctor and are merely left hoping to find out more from a specialist.

Dr. Guy, if it would have been for me, I would have walked. Good for you on not putting up with it! You got my point. No other professional providing a service would get away with behavior like that. I like how they will charge you if you don't show for an appt but they seem to think keeping you waiting for hours is just fine.
Reply #5 Top
Hey Jill, the philosophy Danny is talking about is my attitude that everyone should hold themselves (and every other worker) to the standard we would hold our parachute riggers and paramedics. Link

Also, if you care to take some advice from one who has spent a lifetime with "growing pains". Look into the possibility of your son experiencing "restless leg syndrome". I'm not saying that is what he has (I have far too little information for that), but some of the words you use are common for kids and adults. Here's a link to a great website that could save you both future visits to "eventual care".

Restlesslegs.com Link

I hope you get better care in the future than some doctor taking up your whole day, just to tell you that you need to "see a doctor".

Reply #6 Top

I have spent much of my life in Dr.'s offices.  It's now to the point that I get completely shocked if I *don't* wait at least 1/2 hour past my appointment time or at least 2 hours at "urgent" care.  I went to emergency once because I wasn't sure that I wasn't having a stroke...you would think that I would get in fast, right?  Nope.  I waited 45 minutes to see anyone- even a nurse.

I could write a blog about my thoughts on the Dr.s that I have seen...but I won't

Make sure you get him tested for RA while you're at it.  Might as well cover all your bases.  When you are younger, joint pain doesn't always feel like it is in the joint (doesn't always when you are an adult, either).  RA in kids is hard to diagnose since most kids don't feel the pain in their joint.  So, it's best just to test for it and rule it out versus ruling out everything else, first.

Hope they find out what is wrong with him quickly.  Otherwise, you'll become very familiar with waiting in Dr.'s offices. 

Reply #7 Top
Hi, Jill -

As both a patient and a physician, I am often just as frustrated by the irrationality of our so-called "system" of health care. 20 years ago or so, you would have probably been seen by your pediatrician that day, and maybe even by an orthopedist that afternoon following a call from your pediatrician asking him to see your son.

As patients, we are led to expect prompt, thorough, competent and compassionate care (nothing wrong with that ideal). And you did the right thing seeking advice about your son's discomfort. But I can attest that we have also developed an expectation that any & all medical problems, once we've decided we have one, no matter how minor, will be resolved "today" - on no notice. If we can't be seen now, we want wildass-guess treatment by phone - just do something and do it now... whatever you do, don't ever make us go the ER, even if it's real emergency. None of us have time for the inconvenience of an illness, because we've got a wedding to go to, or a vacation starting tomorrow, or a dinner out tonight, or an important meeting in Dallas on Monday, or a son's soccer tournament on Saturday... you get the point.

As physicians, we are expected to operate as a "business," getting paid (when & if we get paid) progressively less and less over time, forcing us to squeeze more & more patients into already busy schedules and function wtih the help of fewer and fewer staff (our largest expense, after all), simply because we'll go out of business if we don't. And we're expected to make zero errors in judgement and have no bad outcomes.

Insurance companies operate on the principal that physicians are criminals by definition and the companies aren't going to part with a nickel until & unless we prove we are innocent. No matter that a service was rendered to an individual in need in good faith, if there's a typo in the claim form or there is some fine print in a contract that can enable them to avoid paying, they're all over it. In the eyes of many patients, if an insurance company denies a claim, or determines it is the patient's responsibility, then the doctor did something wrong or didn't file the claim properly and doesn't deserve to get paid. I practice a primary care specialty in which revenue is earned from lots of small-dollar-amount services. If an insurance company decides, for whatever reason, justified or not, to not pay a $38 bill, I'm better off not even arguing about it because it will cost me $50 in staff time and resources to contest it - I'll "only " lose $12 if I "succeed" and $88 if I fail. We are truly in a no-win situation when that happens, and it happens more often than I care to think about. And there's the problem of the crazy medical liability lottery and its consequence, defensive medicine (a large part of the reason you were advised to see a specialist), which further contributes to the sense of frenzied harrassment physicians live with day in & day out.

Even with all that, I'm proud to say that in our practice it is rare for anyone to wait more than 10 minutes, if that, past their appointment time to be seen, and not by a physician extender, but by the physician. We can't fully anticipate everyone's needs so the schedule inevitably bends to meet them on the fly, but I spend as much time waiting for patients late to their appointments as they do waiting for me. I see 18-25 patients in a full day, while the physicians in the practice downstairs see 50-60 or more, many of whom wait an hour or more to be seen. However, providing that kind of service means I earn about 40% of what I took home in 1981 (in 1981 dollars). In actual dollars, I take home almost exactly what I took home in 1981, but the dollar's purchasing power is only about 40% of what it was then. If I were to tell you in advance that the pay for the job you were about to start would lose 60% of its value if you stayed with it for 25 years, you would probably look elsewhere for a job.

More and more of the hard-earned money you spend on insurance premiums is being skimmed off the top by opportunists (insurance companies and lawyers) who contribute absolutely nothing to your health or well-being. And it is showing up in the "wasted another day at the Dr." problem that prompted your article. I wish there was a quick and painless solution to the problem, but I'm not optimistic one will be found before my career is finished, or before your son has children of his own, I'm afraid. I just want you to know that physicians are not any happier about it than you are and that the barriers to providing the kind of care you expect and deserve have been growing taller and taller as third parties have aggressively and progressively invaded the physician-patient relationship.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #8 Top

have him tested for leukemia as well.
Make sure you get him tested for RA while you're at it
I plan to get a lot of blood work done on him.  At least the Dr did ask about thyroid disease in the family.

Look into the possibility of your son experiencing "restless leg syndrome".
We ruled that out since it only hurts when he moves.

everyone should hold themselves (and every other worker) to the standard we would hold our parachute riggers and paramedics. Link
Excellent standard! 

Anyone ever try to keep an 8yr old off his feet for any amount of time?  It's close to impossible!  I think the crutches just made him want to walk around more.  He woke up limping again today but said it doesn't hurt like it did yesterday.  This mommy is going to be pretty stressed until we find out what is going on.  I am just praying it is something that is easily treatable.

Reply #9 Top

Daiwa, I am very understanding of what people in the medical field go through.  My husband's cousin is a doctor who works in the same group as our family doctor.  Truth be told, if the doctor had come in and simply apologized for the wait, I probably wouldn't have felt so pissed off.

You sound like you have an appreciation of all sides.  The fact of the matter is though, you are a minority.  Those who know me know that I tend to see the good in people.  I always try to make the best of situations.  One thing that will blow it with me is disregard for the value of my time and insulting my intelligence.

This clinic had half a dozen nurses standing around literally twiddling there thumbs and only had one doctor on staff from 9-2 the Fri before Memorial Weekend.  I simply expect people in the medical field to have more brains and be more prepared than that!  Heck, the local Denny's knows better than that.

Thank you for lending a balance to this conversation!

Reply #10 Top
Reply #11 Top
This is one of the reasons why people are so likely to sue doctors.  It's been my experience that doctors (as a broad generalization) simply stop thinking of their patients as customers - as human beings.  So any good-will that the patient may have has long since been eroded by the callous treatment many receive by health care professionals.
Reply #12 Top
Daiwa - one can't blame insurance companies for health care professionals not behaving with basic courtesy.
Reply #13 Top
Jill & Drag -

You are both quite right, and I didn't intend to excuse the particular physician's behavior or lack of courtesy. I always, always, always thank my patients for their patience with me, even if I'm only 5 minutes late, and I never tell them "we don't have time for that today." Physicians who think of themselves only and don't extend common courtesy out of respect for their patients deserve your scorn. It's just like the tag line from the MasterCard commercials - courtesy is "priceless."

I do want you to have a sense for how the system is broken for the physician as much as it is the patient, how physicians pay a price to provide the kind of customer service we all want, and that physicians can't be taken for granted - we are human just like you and the pressures coercing physicians are strong. Bucking the trend isn't rewarded, rather just the opposite. There are no business incentives to efficiency in medical care, only incentives to churn volume. And the trend can't be sustained indefinitely - I worry about the quality and availability of medical care for myself 15-20 years from now, should I be fortunate enough to still be here. The insurance system is so complicated now and so frought with little "gotcha" land mines that I don't blame patients for being confused and upset. The problem is, the interface between the "system" and the patient, where the rubber meets the road, happens to be the doctor and, rightly or wrongly, the "blame" for all those land mines routinely gets laid at our feet.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #14 Top
It's very sad to see this sort of thing.. makes me wonder about how healthcare will be when I get older and begin to rely on it.
Reply #15 Top
This clinic had half a dozen nurses standing around literally twiddling there thumbs and only had one doctor on staff from 9-2 the Fri before Memorial Weekend. I simply expect people in the medical field to have more brains and be more prepared than that! Heck, the local Denny's knows better than that.


Jill -

If we got paid the way Denny's does - cash at the time of service - you might have been greeted by the doctor on arrival. If Denny's were managed by "healthcare administration professionals," there would be two managers and fourteen waitresses to every cook, your meal would arrive cold in 4 hours (after prior authorization for consumption had been obtained), you'd storm out without paying the bill, you'd get statements for 4 months demanding payment, then your account would get turned over to a collection agency.

If we worked directly for you, you wouldn't exactly call the tune, but you'd at least own the orchestra. The corrosive reality of today's healthcare is that doctor's don't "work" for you in the traditional sense, and our paymasters care only about their bottom line, not your welfare or how courteously you are treated. Oh, if you complain, they'll fluff their feathers & protest their concern & all that, but that's it. I don't intend to defend all physicians here, BTW - I am in a position to know too many whose only concern, IMO, is with milking the system or taking advantage of people, something I am ashamed to acknowledge about our profession, but doing something about it would be the subject of a whole different article.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #16 Top
Sorry to hear about your son's pain. Hopefully it will turn out to be something minor.

I just wanted to throw in a positive doctor experience. A few weeks after I was released from the hospital following the surgery to repair my shattered pelvis it was time to have the sutures removed. I made an appointment with a local physician who happens to also treat my mother regularly.

When I went in his office was quite busy as he shared it with a couple of other doctors. I was called back at my appointment time (suprised). The doctor came in, asked about my injuries and surgery, examined the medical records I had brought with me from the hospital and proceeded to remove the sutures and examine the scar.

He was quite friendly and chatty during the entire process. He even asked after about the 10th suture if he was hurting me and joked that he should have asked sooner. Afterwards he spent some time talking with me about my progress and prescribed some painkillers for me and told me where the least expensive pharmacy would be to get it filled as he knew I had been unable to work since the wreck and wouldn't be working any time soon. He also knew I had no insurance.

When it was all said and done I went to the nurse's station as instructed and was told by the nurse that the doc had marked the sheet "no charge". I was floored and even protested a bit but she said that was up to the doc. The man had spent nearly an hour of his time with me and didn't charge me a dime. While I was filling my prescription I made a point of selecting a very nice thank you card to send to him.

Reply #17 Top
MasonM -

Kudos to your doctor for his compassion. I like to think that happens a lot more than we know, because just like good news not being news, good experiences seldom provoke us to ventilate in places like this.

Thanks for sharing that.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #18 Top
I also have a positive doctors experience...two, as a matter of fact.

First, I will say this: I absolutely hate "Urgent Care"...or...as it is here in Las Vegas: Quick "Scare". The doctor spends all of 30 seconds with me, doesn't answer my questions, doesn't address the concerns I have, and that really bothers me.

The first time I wasn't feeling well I went to a gynecologist that I could see quickly here in Vegas. She was horrible. She couldn't believe that I was a virgin at my age (I'm 24), and wanted to perform tests that I had not 6 months ago that came back clear (a routine Pap). She was in and out in two seconds. She was rude and brash and frankly, the $20 co pay I paid for her services was far too much.

A colleague recommended a different gynecologist and I went to her for my yearly checkup back in March. She was fantastic. I had to wait quite a while, but I do realize that there's not a good facility/doctor/patient ratio here in Las Vegas because it's growing so fast. She was very gentle, and took time to address the concerns I have about my illness and prescribe meds for that illness in attempt to treat it anyway. She also had her nurse (whom I *don't* like) call around to see where I could find one of the medications the cheapest since my insurance doesn't cover it. She shakes my hand and walks me out.

As for other medical issues, another colleague suggested another clinic for things like injuries or illnesses. Ryan went to see Dr. Chung first, and he was very kind and very thorough. He shakes your hand when he first walks in and shakes your hand when he walks you to the door. He spends time answering ALL your questions and making sure that you really have what he thinks you have. He also doesn't just send you off with a kick in the butt and a "good riddance". He's asked for follow-up appointments both times I've seen him because he wants to make sure the medicine is working effectively and that I'm really feeling better. I went in today because there's something wrong with my eye. He thinks I have pink eye, and I'm going back on Tuesday so he can recheck me because if it is something more serious, he wants to make sure that it's taken care of... I can also usually get in to see him either same day or the next day, so if its nothing too bad, I can do that.

It is very, very difficult to find quality medical care in this town that will see you on short notice and will actually take "care" of you. I'm so thankful for my health care providers.
Reply #19 Top

I like to think that happens a lot more than we know, because just like good news not being news, good experiences seldom provoke us to ventilate in places like this.

It's a real mixed bag.  I can't say for other states, but Michigan has what I call "regional" good service.  I have lived all over the state and have seen over 100 different doctors in my life.  The best care that I ever got was in the Mt. Pleasant area, which is far from being a wealthy area.  Most of the Dr.s there moved there to get away from the "big town" mentality.  They wanted to make a community difference, so they moved.  Up North Dr.'s are good on the customer care end, but they seem to lack current knowledge.  Ann Arbor is top notch in knowledge, but I have only had one Dr. that showed any "care" and she only works part time.  Luckily, I live outside Ann Arbor in a small town, so I get Dr.s who moved out to be able to serve a community. 

Most of the time a Dr. won't spend more than 5 minutes with you.  It seems like the only exception is when you are discussing surgery or you have a surgical follow up.  I even had surgery canceled because the Dr. decided to take a vacation (I switched surgeons- I figured that he really didn't care enough about me to be doing my surgery).

Our healthcare system is broken, but I don't see it in the same light as a lot of people.  The problem is that the issue of money is the #1 concern.  People don't want to pay, and Dr.'s want to make more.  Insurance companies have to charge more to cover lawsuits, and Dr.'s have to pay it because they don't spend enough time with patients to even find out what is wrong before they treat, instead they rely too heavily on tests to cover their bases (which raises the cost of insurance since tests cost a lot of money).  There used to me a time that Doctors were Doctors because they wanted to help people.  Now most Doctors do it for the money and "prestige".  Doctors are still one of the highest paid professions, yet I hear Doctors complain about wages all the time.  They should be complaining about lack of time to adequately treat patients, instead.

I wish that I could get a Dr. that was as good as the Vet I take my dogs to.  They spend an average of 20-30 minutes with my dogs per visit.  They ask questions and discuss possibilities.  They order tests only when needed and try moderate treatments. They call to ask how my pets are doing, and they try to save me money when at all possible.  They also seem to truly care about my pets and our family.

Of course, I may be jaded though, considering that I had been to the Dr. more by the age of 20 than most people are in their whole life.

Reply #20 Top
Jill:
First of all I'm sorry to hear that your little guy isn't doing so well. I know how hard it is to keep kids off their feet, especially when the weather is halfway decent!

I've had some horrible ER experiences too, there have been times when i've had to wait hours to be seen for something that should have been taken care of right away (like a dislocated shoulder).

This past week provided me with both a bad example of how things should work and a good one too.

I had a myelogram done on Thursday. The radiologist who did it left the building right after the test was done, so when I started running into problems afterwards (I was leaking CSF and in pretty much agony)he was nowhere to be found. It took 5 phone calls and 3 hours for the nurses to find someone to admit me to the hospital, and another 2 hours before I was given any pain meds (by which time I was literally screaming in pain and begging people to please help me). To say i was pissed off was an understatement. I was furious, and I'm making an official complaint about this physician's conduct next week. He shouldn't have left until he knew i was okay, and even when he did leave he should have left a contact number so that they could have reached him.

So, that was a good example of how things AREN'T supposed to be done. However, yesterday was a different matter. After I collapsed in the foyer of the ER, things moved very, very quickly. I was in a bed, with an IV and pain meds on board less than 15 mins later, and the anesthesiologist was in my room performing the blood patch procedure less than an hour after that. She came in on her day off, and stayed with me for 2 hours afterwards to make sure I was doing better. THAT'S the way things are supposed to be done.

I totally understand your frustration. I think that your doc could have at least apologized for the wait; if you're anything like me that would have been all it took to placate you. Basically, you just need someone to acknowledge that you've been waiting there for ages...no-one has to bend over backwards, just a little common courtesy is all that's called for.

Hope your little dude feels better soon!
Reply #21 Top
I made a point of selecting a very nice thank you card to send to him.
Good for you for rewarding good service too.  I tend to do the same.  Unfortuantely, it is human nature to have negative experience stick more sharply in your mind.
Reply #22 Top

if you're anything like me that would have been all it took to placate you. Basically, you just need someone to acknowledge that you've been waiting there for ages...no-one has to bend over backwards, just a little common courtesy is all that's called for.
Exactly!

Sorry to hear it took you collapsing for things to be done properly.  My one of my worst experiences at an ER was when I had gall bladder attacks.  My parents took me to the ER because I wanted to die (no exaggeration).  I was writhing in pain and noone even said boo to me for 1.5hrs.  My Mom was ready to kill someone so they took me into triage and gave me a shot (without asking if I wanted it or was allergic to anything).  I responded "Hey!  What the hell was that?!"  It was morphine!  They hadn't so much as taken my temperature and they just shot me up with morphine!

Well, the morphine didn't do anything but give me a headache.  When the doctor finally came around, my Dad told her that he was certain that it was gall bladder since I was reacting the same way as he had a couple months prior and he had to have it taken out.  She totally dismissed it and told me I was constipated and to go home and take an enema.

The next day I got in to see a decent doctor.  The experience was like night and day.  This doc actually asked me what I thought was going on and did the proper test (ultrasound).  Sure enough, I needed emergency surgery because there was a stone stuck in the duct and I was at risk of it shooting out and lacerating my internal organs.

We have a wonderful family doctor so I have a good example of what doctors should be like.  He always apologizes if he is running late, he listens to what is going on with you and what you think might be going on, he takes the time to really check you out and check your records and most importantly, treats you like a person.

Reply #23 Top
We have a wonderful family doctor so I have a good example of what doctors should be like. He always apologizes if he is running late, he listens to what is going on with you and what you think might be going on, he takes the time to really check you out and check your records and most importantly, treats you like a person.


That's how it should be. We can't promise to always make the right call, but we can always treat you with respect and concern.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #24 Top
Jill I hope your son is doing better. It's scary when they get ill and you don't know what's wrong. Even scarier when you have to go to the ER, the dreaded place!

I've had my share of ER's not a good place I'm sorry to say. The wait is always long and it's always impossible to talk to anyone before you're actually "seen".

It's probably also because a lot of people uses the ER as their way of getting regular medical care and that makes it harder for those who really need urgent care. This has been realized by a lot of hospitals, that people uses the ER for regular routine care - especially when they don't have health insurance, the unfortunate thing is they haven't done anything about it yet.

Dharma, wow, what an experience! I'm glad you're ok and you're right about that formal complaint. That doctor should have known better than just "running off" knowing that a procedure like yours needed to be watched! Doctors shouldn't just go by their training, of course that's very important, but they should also go by their instincts. This should most certainly be an integral part of them being a doctor shouldn't it?

It is terrible that your wait was so long though Jill. That's unbelievable and the doctor apologizing would have most definately been the courteous thing to do, regardless!
Reply #25 Top
I worked in a doctor's office through high school and part of college. The doc I worked for took the time to answer each patient's questions, and if you're the one in the room, you want that kind of care--you don't want an assembly line. He was a surgeon and had the fun job of often telling people they had cancer and going over their treatment options. People in the waiting room would get rude and crass, not knowing that the person coming out had spent the last 20 minutes crying their eyes out because they'd just been diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer.

You have to wait 45 minutes? Gee, that's too bad. But if you're in a specialist's office, just deal with it. At least we don't have Canada's system.

As for Urgent Care, well, they should have a triage or a 10-minute rule like some hospital ERs have where if you're assessed by a nurse within 10 minutes of your arrival.

bad doctors, they need to take parated2k's philosophy on doing their jobs, yep yep yep


Danny Bassette, I find this generalization about doctors being bad tiresome and untrue--you mention it every time this topic comes up. While there are some bad apples, they're not all.