Some thoughts on the state of PC gaming...

from Stardock Forums

Wrote this on usenet for whatever it's worth:

I think the biggest problem PC games face is that PC game publishers haven't really caught up to the fact that consoles can now do a lot of the kinds of games that you used to need a PC for. That means that PC games need to bring new things to the table that give users a reason to purchase PC titles.

I can think of two big things PC games COULD have that would make them more attractive:

(1) Electronic distribution. I'd buy more games if I could just go to their
site, press a button and have it. The Rise of Nations expansion is out, when will I have time to haul my lazy butt up to Best Buy or whatever and purchase it? I'd buy it right this second if I could go and download it.

(2) After-release enhancements. Keep updating the game after release with new features that can be downloaded into the game to keep it fresh and interesting and you'll lengthen the sales cycle on the game.  Even a year after release, Galactic Civilizations is selling pretty decently.

But I can tell you from first-hand experience that some of the big
publishers are not only not embracing these ideas but are against it.  I had a conference call recently with a publisher who was offering a very large advance on royalties for one of our upcoming games but was skittish on on-line distribution and after-release electronic updates because they believe piracy is a big issue and being wary of frequent updates due to a lack of publisher control of the game's direction.

But tell me, which is easier to pirate? A CD-ROM or something that's
streamed over something like Stardock Central or Steam? I'd say the CD-ROM - crack the copy protection and make an image with a serial number and voila.


And which is likely to sell better? A game that stays the same after release or one that gets minor enhancements based on player feedback?

I am convinced that the primary reason Galactic Civilizations
(www.galciv.com) ended selling so well is because of the post-release
updates that added new features. Each time you release something meaningful, it gets more coverage in the game mags and webzines which increase sales. But that required that we put an after-release budget.

I really do think the biggest thing game publishers need to get into is the electronic distribution of titles. Frankly,we won't sign a deal with a
publisher that prevents us from electronically distributing our games at
least via Drengin.net (www.drengin.net).

Now, regarding the second issue which is the death of Indie American
developers..

If American developers are going to have a hope of competing economically with eastern European develoeprs then they have to be allowed to sell the game directly -- electronically.  Stardock made far FAR more revenue on Galactic Civilizations from direct sales than it did retail sales despite direct sales only representing <10% of the total sales. If it weren't for direct sales, we wouldn't be working on Galactic Civilizations II.

The Strategy Firsts and other similar publishers of the world can only
deliver 20k to 50k units at retail domestically (that's essentially their
distribution reach -- though in GalCiv's case, it got a huge spike thanks to MOO 3 and strong foreign distribution as well). If the developer is only making $6 to $7 per unit, that's not going to pay for a real game.  But couple that with say 10,000 direct sales at $40 apiece and now you can pay for that development.

But if PC publishers stick to only thinking about traditional means of
selling and supporting games, then what's going to happen is that only the biggest PC games will be viable to develop.  The cost of developing games, even smaller ones, continues to rise because the production values rise. And because of the low barrier of entry to consoles ($150 and you've got one, no messing with the latest Detonator drivers and DirectX) consoles will continue to take on a bigger market share as long as the PC publishers are going head to head with console games on the same ground.

1,813 views 47 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I wish all game developers had the same attitude as Stardock with regards to after-sales support, and direct selling. I feel much happier knowing my money is going to the people who deserve it (i.e. the developers) rather than some faceless publisher and a high street store that puts an outrageous markup on.

Unfortunately, I didn't discover Stardock until after purchasing Galciv from a high street store (albeit at a discount). Needless to say, any future Stardock products will be purchased directly by me, and I would urge everyone to do the same.

Thanks Brad, and everyone at Stardock for the continued development and support. :HOT:
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I definitely agree that internet publishing is going to be the way of the future for PC games. Especially when you consider that broadband is becoming available in more areas for less money.

There are a number of reasons PC gaming has been struggling, but rapidly shrinking space at the retail environments and ever rising budgets cannot be sustainable over a long period of time. Sooner or later, internet publishing and smaller teams almost have to become the norm again, unless you happen to be a powerhouse like EA who can absorb a poor performing game finacially.

I would like to see more developers take Stardock's approach, as it's a better arrangement for both the developers and the consumers. A publishers value to a PC development house is shrinking rapidly, almost as fast as the shelf space allocated to PC gaming. Considering how much of the profits publishers eat up, cutting a titles sales in half still means a higher profit for the team, even if you charge a lower price for the game. And since you dont have to print boxes or manuals, print CDs, and ship them out, charging less for the game would more than likely increase sales, making self-publishing even more attractive.

You guys have gotten fairly lucky as Strategy First does have a fairly loyal following so between that and the abyssmal release of MOO3, I'm sure you picked up a few retail sales there. However, everyone I know bought the game direct, and would eagerly do so again, just for the simple fact we know that our money goes to support the developers, not some publisher who just throws the boxes out, maybe prints a few ads, then takes the money and runs.

~SDC~
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

long live the PC game and my continued thanks to Brad and all the staff and everyone that works for Drengin.net.

I too bought my copy from a high street retail outlet here in the Uk. Then discovered the website and online purchase option. After looking into the viability of staying with stardock games, (ie political machine, AP & Galciv2) i was more than happy to port with my money directly to drengin.net and download the games directly. To hell with the middle men. This gamer now buys direct if possible.

Good luck to Brad and company for the future, and thanks for continuing to put their time and resources into this great game and community.

Long live Stardock :CONGRAT: :CONGRAT:

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I have to say the same. I will keep Stardock at the top of my list for computer companies. I got GC at Best Buy, and once I got it and went onto the web site, I found all of the online options, and was quite dissapointed when I found out I could have got it online. I like it much better, no middle man. I went to Best Buy (just to look :) ) and found that the RoN expansion was out, and my first thought was "Hey, I wish I could buy this online" I will be quite hesitant to buy at stores anymore. I plan on getting GCII the day the beta comes out, and I will get a new year of Drengin if I have to, just because it means that much to me. I have NEVER found a company as good as Stardock systems, from quality to customer support, from help to products. This is my favorite computer games designer, and I will be getting every one of your games. To Stardock. May you have a long and profitable life. :CONGRAT: :CONGRAT: :CONGRAT:
[Message Edited]
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree with most of what is said above. Cnly other thing is, although the PC game shelf place is evaporating, the consoles will not kill off the PC as a game system. Until they make a console more like a PC with a keyboard etc., it's just not going to happen. Even after the keyboard is a standard plug-in, I still wont count out the PC. Why? Because the competetion will be so severe from all of the "big guys" looking for the easy money that many medium/small houses will again look at the PC first where the competetion is not so insane. Just look at the massive multiplayer online games. Everyone now is on the band wagon and ultimately, most are going to fail miserably. Then they will be asking, what next?

In conclusion, I believe Stardock's future is bright and will continue to excel going forward.

Besides, you are going to have to pry my PC out of my cold dead fingers.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I actually have a PS2, but it isn't much good for me except for first-person shooters, which work for that since I have a laptop. But for strategy they are horrible, so as long as strategy is a demand, and I know it will be, I think computer games have a future in that.

And I agree with Wulfer, just try to take my PC.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Until they make a console more like a PC with a keyboard etc., it's just not going to happen.
End of quote


Every console since the PSX (except the N64, but including the GameBoy in it's various incarnations) has had a keyboard perheripal (although few of them sold well... The GameBoy's was actually the highest selling one, although the recent release of crossconsole MMORPGs will probably change that in time).

~SDC~
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I cant think of many other games that I have played so many times.I think the continual updating of the game via stardock is a huge bonus.

This, along with the competition on the metaverse, has maintained my interest.

I still buy retail as I am on dialup :( although I would purchase games straight from the company if they would mail it out to Oz (as per AP expansion).

I have an XBox as well but only every use that for multiplayer Co-op games.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I purchased GalCiv online, and immediately fell in love with Stardock central. It's easy to use, and updating or purchasing new stuff is simply *too* easy - as Frogboy pointed out, that's the biggest advantage of online distribution. You sit at home and can have the game or software without having to go anywhere, and can even do some other stuff while it downloads. So if you see a game that you would like to have, you can get it even if stores are closed - and you may not buy it if you have to wait and g to a store that has it...

If it had been possible, I would have bought every game I own directly online. And I agree too that you have much more control over piracy this way, as going the legal way gets you so much more that you would no be happy with your cracked version (especially if like with stardock there are frequent updates and new stuff to get).

~SDC~
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Maybe one other point to key on is the ability for PC users to mod their games. You simply can't do that with a console. It's nice to have the option of tweaking up your game rules, images, or behaviors through files or front-end tools - and save that information persistently. It's not to say that the console market cannot emulate that; they simply aren't there yet.

-cc
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
It's not to say that the console market cannot emulate that; they simply aren't there yet.
End of quote


I think that's what Brad is missing. The X-box already has a large amount of people downloading whole games to modified boxes through the broadband connection available. Now, that may not be on the legal side, but it shows that console technology is already a small leap from even more seamless direct delivery.

When the X-box 2 comes out expect more storage, more broadband features, expect companies to compete to offer direct rental programs, etc. Furthermore, although game mods aren't yet part of the console world, add-on levels, missions, etc. have been around as unlockables or memory flashes for a while and we're not far off of seeing genuine add-on content through the previously mentioned broad band. We already have official patches for some X-box games.

Right now there are only two true advantages the PC has over the console market: much higher resolution displays and potentially unlimited memory and storage space. Most games, however, require neither feature, and as time moves on, it becomes cheaper to give more and more with the consoles.

Now, this isn't to say that I disagree with Brad on the benefits of direct distribution for the PC market, but it's going to take a lot more than that to make it a viable *separate* platform. The technologies are growing closer together and it's more likely we'll eventually see them merge before there's ever any sort of unique advantage the PCs can hold over the consoles.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
was skittish on on-line distribution and after-release electronic updates because they believe piracy is a big issue
End of quote

Call me cynical, but isn't it obvious that a publisher is going to be opposed to a distribution model that ultimately eliminates the need for a publisher?

Right now there are only two true advantages the PC has over the console market: much higher resolution displays and potentially unlimited memory and storage space.
End of quote

And mouse and keyboard as standard.


~SDC~
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
I think evenually, the 2 will merge with the TV because as we know, nothing is forever.
However, for right now because keyboards are an optional item for consoles (I have yet to see anyone who has a console(s) have a KB), they will not replace the PC as a gaming system in the near future. Until the keyboard is a standard plug-in (not an optional plug-in), consoles games will continue to have limited scope. Generally speaking, games, which require intensive thought to be played like strategies, will continued to be made for the PC.
Prediction for when the 3 merge together to form a mass produced, mega-home-entertainment system is about 20 years +/- 5 years.
BTW, this is only an opinion!
May the force be with you, my Terran comrades.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
My first copy of GalCiv was the OS/2 version, purchased in a store many years ago - and I kept OS/2 running for several years purely for that. I only (re)discovered the windows version in the middle of last year, and promptly paid for and downloaded a copy - and an upgrade to Drengin.

I'm finding that the UK stores seem to cater to the masses - turn-based and/or "thinking" games are getting difficult to find here - it's either order on-line or find someone who offers them for download.

I think the other thing is that people are competetive - the metaverse and the related community are an important part of the galciv experience - if you've not joined an empire, it's worth doing. (this is a hint to wulfer - follow this link http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/empires.asp?id=683 )

Roll on GC2, Elemental (or whatever!) etc....

Alex

~SDC~
[Message Edited]
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I think evenually, the 2 will merge with the TV
End of quote

I dunno... A good PC setup has a printer, probably a scanner, and a keyboard and mouse in ergonomically correct positions across a desk. Mixing that with a big TV sounds awkward. There might be some way of doing it neatly, but I doubt it's been invented yet.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
I wouldn't; in any discussion about a consumer product, discount the power of what is marketable.
What configuration is technically best or most advanced means nothing when compared to which can be marketed and distributed most effectively.
Lots of examples: Beta was a better system than VHS but most people say "what?" when you mention it; the seemingly eternal debate over PC vs. Mac; and, is the iPod really the best way to carry music around or just the coolest?
The fact is: Most people are so bonded with their TV they see it as a member of the family. THAT'S the medium that will be developed into not only gaming platforms; but internet & e-mail, digital on-demand network programming, banking, shopping...all by remote control from your couch. That is the key. ;p
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
When I walk into game store there seems to be much more activity in console games than PC games.

Developing games for consoles means the hardware
and software requirement is known every time. You do not have to sell games and state things like the game must run on Win 98 and higher, Min Ram, Video etc...

Could the future of gaming be the console ?
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
If I remember well, the Dreamcast had enough of an internet access that you can safely bet the next consoles will have internet access, maybe not within 2 years, but within 5 years I think it's fairly sure. So Brad's points are moot.
Personnally, the reason why I don't play on a console but a PC is I need something I can carry around. It's much more convenient to carry around a laptop than a console with its TV set. But laptops are not considered interesting by most PC users, for some weird reason I can't grasp.

Modding however, as 01Anxiety said, cannot be done on a console. I think it's technically possible for a console to store modding data the way it can store save games, but it is highly unlikely they'll do that anytime soon because they'd have to provide editors when most PC games require a text editor and graphics programs that the PC have.

So IMO, the future of PC games is moddable/customisable games which use the other software available on a PC.
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
(1) Electronic distribution. I'd buy more games if I could just go to theirsite, press a button and have it.
End of quote


Yup. No question.

(2) After-release enhancements.
End of quote


With most s/w games included I'd settle for good bug fixes. Added features... Bonus!

publishers are not only not embracing these ideas but are against it.
End of quote


Yeah well... thier mistake. Hummm... an on line publisher... call me crazy I guess.

But tell me, which is easier to pirate? A CD-ROM or something that'sstreamed over something like Stardock Central or Steam?
End of quote


Neither given equal systems. The advantage of course goes to the cracker with the CD, because the source is ubiquitous. Which means you can try it over and over and over again. In the dark basement of the corporate cube with no one the wiser. Hacking a stream isn't any harder per se, but isn't done because it's just so much easier to go to Joe's house and cut his installed copy to cd. In the final anaylsis though a craked game is cracked don't matter.

Brad, your comment on Joe User about making it easy not to priate or making it easy for me to be legal is exactly correct. Game companies or any s/w company for that matter that make it easy for their clients to be legal will have less piracy problems than those that don't. And let's be truthful a certain percentage is always going to be stolen no matter what. Just because pre-teen and young teen boys are well teen boys and they can.

And which is likely to sell better? A game that stays the same after release or one that gets minor enhancements based on player feedback?
End of quote


Well we all know the answer to this one. ;)

I am convinced that the primary reason Galactic Civilizations(www.galciv.com) ended selling so well is because of the post-releaseupdates that added new features.
End of quote


That's part of it for sure. Another part is damned good bug fixes/support.

As for consoles... I have one I never use it. Why??? Because my eye hand coordination has had 20 years of keyboard/mouse traing and I just can't get my fat thumbs to work 8 different buttons and fingers to work 4 different trigers.

But single purpose machines have a big advantage over multipurpose ones. They are easier to make and harder to break. So the PC game publishers had better get it together otherwise I'll be force to move to a console out of sheer boredom.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Lets not forget that a computer can be used for other things such as writing letters, email, editing photos and even work :SURPRISED: etc...

A console's purpose is entertainment only (at the moment). Until this changes there will always be a spot for PCs.

PCs also have the added advantage of being easily upgradeable, both hardware and software, as required by the user. Consoles are more limited in this regard.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
It's much more convenient to carry around a laptop than a console with its TV set.
End of quote


Only a matter of time before someone makes a portable console with LCD screen.....

Alex


~SDC~
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Only a matter of time before someone makes a portable console with LCD screen.....
End of quote


They already exist on XBox and PS2. Still requires a plug though, I think.
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
Only a matter of time before someone makes a portable console with LCD screen.....
End of quote


They'd rather make sure their LCDs are as resistant as laptop screens are, and don't blind the user, which would probably increase the price a lot. A latop price is essentially only the screen. So for the same screen quality you 're better off with a computer.

I must soften what I said earlier. After release enhancements will probablyremain a plus for the PC. But then console games seem to have much more QA testing than most PC games (or software in general).
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
But then console games seem to have much more QA testing than most PC games (or software in general).
End of quote


Influenced heavily by the single purpose nature of the environment. It's a closed environment, hardware is fixed, O/S is fixed, programs (games) are single purpose, so the problem space is much smaller. Hence less to cover from a QC/QA point of view.
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
Overall, 2003 U.S. sales of console games totaled $5.8 billion (186.4 million units) while computer games accounted for $1.2 billion (52.8 million units) in sales.

Old numbers but it does say where investment in game developing should be going.

Some games like Strategy games and simulations, do port well to consoles but the console industry is huge.

Anybody with an XBox not play Halo ?