How many starbases are too many?

How many can you build, and is there enough space to put them in. Those are the only caps I know of.

There is no literal cap. You can build one on each square of a sector, if you desire. However, the +production benefits are capped.

Remember that you pay an upkeep of 5 BC per starbase.

Capped starbase benefits:
- Production bonuses are capped. You get a limit of 10xPQ for "paid" production, and 3xPQ for "free" production. However, they are not hard caps. I can still get 4x or 5x PQ for free production. Still, I wouldn't recommend more than 2 maxed out +production starbases per sector, unless you had a high-PQ planet.
Uncapped starbase bonuses:

- Military bonuses stack, including +speed. This is very useful when you're at war and you know the AI is targetting a specific sector.

- Trade bonuses stack. Many players put all their trade routes between the same pair of planets, on a vertical or horizontal line, and then build lots of trade starbases. The increase in trade income is more than the upkeep cost of the starbase.

- Culture bonuses *MULTIPLY* rather than merely adding. The AI doesn't seem to exploit this.

Say, does this means you can have multiple trade routes between two systems?

~SDC~

Yes, you can even set all your trade routes between the same two systems if you so choose. Just that a war could really bust your economy up if all your eggs were in one basket.

The "all eggs in one basket" isn't as bad as it sounds. Keep an extra set of freighters in position near another race, and activate the new trade routes after a war starts.

*cackles in glee as the light dawns*

This is too many......

http://ethermage.net:800/~codemage/Trade%20Master.jpg

Hmmm. Or, consolidate all your trade with one of the minors. For one, you don't share the wealth with The Enemy. Of course, you don't get any trade brownie points, but that's a different thread.

Ah-ha you say, but what about later in the game when the other majors start picking off all the minors? Well, if you've done it right, you can put up a scout blockade around the star system you're trading with. The enemy ships won't attack you since you're so powerful (you are, right?) and can't attack the minor, so trade keeps up!

As a bonus, it seems the AI will continue to build up a fleet near the minor system that he covets, so eventually you can wipe out a good portion of his military with a few cap ships and augmented SBs....

MC>

~SDC~

So, if I read this right the recommendation is only 2 production bases per sector unless you have a high pq planet (what is considered high)? Also, 4 trade bases per sector in a trade route with trade and speed maxxed out?

No, not quite.

a) Production Starbases: You can build these all day long, but you start seeing SERIOUS diminishing returns once you hit the 10xPQ/3xPQ caps for paid and free production, respectively. Basically, once you're doing (PQx13) total IU's of either type of production on a planet, don't expect more starbases to do much for you. Of course, this means that with that class 26 planet you found you can expect 300+ IU's before you've maxed out.
Trade starbases: never max out. They keep stacking and stacking and stacking. See that picture up there? That's me. Look over to the right at the economy graph. I was trading with the Arceans...so if you look at the change to BOTH our graphs, you'll see that the trade (over 2 measly sectors!) did a helluva lot.
c) Speed bonuses on at trade route: no, no, no! Speeded-up mini-freighters = fewer turns per cycle = less total $$. Exception to this: some players try and set it up so their minifreighters get "catapulted" into "focus" sectors where all the trade starbases are. I prefer just to use short routes.

-EtherMage


~SDC~

Another bonus of trading exclusively with minors: You can sell them your obsolete ships. Sometimes, you can sell current ships for more than your cost of production. That both raises cash, and helps keep your trading partner in the game.

I do tend to avoid trading with the Alexians on tiny. They tend to get culture-flipped too easily.

If you built constructed speed bonuses in every sector of the trade route, the net effect is 0 - no change in average income from the trade route (you take less turns to complete a cycle, but the ratio of turns spent in each income zone stays the same).

But since you pay 5 bc per turn per starbase, it's not recommended you do this.

If speed bonus and trade center have the same net effect, it's better to build the speed bonus since it helps mobilize your military and takes less constructors to build.

Note: I prefer longer trade routes (4-5 sectors).

And I thought the cheese that is the Great Wall of Scouts (or any other cheap, disposable ship) was done away with. Something about a major being able to teleport past the blockade in later versions. I guess they only fixed it in regard to colony ships and constructors (and not warships and transports) from the sound of this.

The cheese killed was the one where players encircled a planet, preventing any ships from leaving orbit. Now those ships will simply appear behind the blockade.

However, in normal space, ships still can't pass thru other ships so the Wall of Scouts still work.

Another thing to consider about speeded up trade ships... If your enemy is slower, he will find it very hard to blockade you unless your trade ships drop in his lap.

This is NOT the case. While each sector still has the freighter in it the same PROPORTION of the time, you've halved the total number of turns it takes to complete the cycle. Since the value of a trade route increases each TURN on the cycle, this means that the trade route is now effectively half as long, and thus much less valuable.

-EtherMage



~SDC~

So, you are saying slow routes are best since the freighters take longer to do the cycle? Hopefully the goods aren't perishable and spoil before they get there. I guess the idea behind that would be a slower route would create more demand for the products than a faster route. If that was the case then, a player should be penalized for having multiple routes between the same two planets. All those routes should lower the demand for the products since they are arriving so frequently thus driving down the price received for the goods.

Actually, I could be wrong about this - I remember having heard it somewhere, but haven't tested it myself; in the "Trade?....What is the big deal?" thread, there is a post that seems to refute this from another player. I think an experiment might be useful, but I'm definitely not as sure of myself now as I was when I made that post. That was just what the info on the trade screen seemed to indicate to me.

Any word from the devs on this point?

-EtherMage

~SDC~

I was just sounding off mainly, not stating any facts when mentioning the supply and demand thingy

I've studied it quite a bit, and it seems that it is based on the position of the mini-freighter. A 57/118 mini-freighter will give you the same base income regardless of the number of turns they have used to reach there.

You'll notice that your income changes about once every 6 turns (about every half sector). When your mini-freighters are moving faster your income changes faster, too. With one speed bonus starbase (+2), your income changes every two turns (still about every half sector).

Oh and I should mention that the trade income in each sector was the same before and after the addition of speed bonuses.
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What is the relationship between the "57/118" and the actual time spent in each sector. I can see why your trade income didn't change, it is only reported for that one turn, but if I freighter stays longer in each sector doesn't it make more money then? What is the initial x/xxx value. Is that the length of the entire route from origin-destination-origin in turns or in parsecs? Do the freighters generate money for every parsec covered or for every turn spent in the sector? If its for parsecs covered then speeding up the freighters would be beneficial since you would be covering those parsecs faster thus generating income faster.

AA/BB is a piece of information available when you are looking at your trade routes.

BB is the length of the trade route (in parsecs)
AA is the distance traveled so far (in parsecs)

Mini-freighters generate income every turn based on their position AA/BB. If you want more detail or some examples, I'll start a guide to trade routes in the strategy forum.

I filled up a sector full of trade SB's. . 10 freighters between my planet, through one empty sector, to the next sector with the destination. I made liek some X5 of what I did from my revenue that I got from my colonies. I could set taxes to 0% and spending to 100% and I'd still be making a heck of a lot of cash.

The flipside is that, the planet I was trading with eventually flipped because of the immense influence of the sector filled SB's :notsure: . It was still fun though. I think I racked up nearly 3 MILLION BC's that game.

The best thing about speed bonuses is that you can avoid the huge starbase pile up next to your trading partner that eventually flips them.

If you have a 3-4 sector long route, your SB pile up is 2 sectors away from them and not going to affect them so much. And placing one or two speed bonuses SBs in the empty sectors gives you a better income.
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More detail would be nice since it hasn't been determine of speed affects income. If a the end of the turn you are at 100/200 and at the end of the next turn your are 106/200 is the income being reported the total for 101+102+103+104+105+106 or just the income you'd generate for being in 106? Information like this would help in determining if speed really does reduce income.