Question about Fleet Battles

from GalCiv3 Forums

I tried using search tool but couldn't find anything- so quick question about fleet battles.  In previous Gal Civs when you entered into a fleet battle you and the enemy's ships would focus all firepower on a single ship at a time, destroying that ship and moving on to the next ship during each side's 'round' of firing.  My question is if this is still the case in GalCivIII, or if fleet battles will be more dynamic? 

My problem is simply that not only is this 1-at-a-time boring and unrealistic, but makes it so varying up the sizes of ships in your fleet is more about resource/construction time management than any sort of combat advantage.  I guess what I'm saying is that there's a reason navies all around the world are comprised of varying vessel sizes, and not just the biggest ships they can afford to field. 

I believe making smaller ships still viable as large ship designs are unlocked could add depth to fleet battles.  For example, and this is merely an example not a suggested system, but let's say ships received evasion bonuses vs larger ship classes.  Let's take tiny ships:

Tiny vs Tiny: 0%
Tiny vs Small: 10%
Tiny vs Medium: 20%
Tiny vs Large: 30%
Tiny vs Huge: 40%

then place tiny ships in a fleet battle system that did NOT cause fleets to target ships on a one-by-one basis, but instead each ship fired on ships within their individual weapon ranges; suddenly making late-game fleets mixing large and smaller ships makes sense.  Imagine the following scenario:

2 fleets:

Fleet A: 4 Huge
Fleet B: 1 Large, 2 Medium, 6 Tiny

In GalCiv II's current system, Fleet A would wipe the floor with Fleet B, probably with barely taking a scratch.  In the first 'round' of combat, Fleet A will destroy more than 50% of Fleet B easily. 

But in this new scenario where ships receive evasion bonuses and each ship fires at ships in their weapon ranges, Fleet B could send their Tiny ships in to surround Fleet A's dreadnoughts and draw fire, while the two Medium and Large ships strike from a distance. 

Granted, Fleet B will probably still lose, but could stand to actually hurt Fleet A enough to give Fleet B's side a chance in the war. 

Now this was an imperfect and very quick thought experiment, but I am curious to the community's thoughts on this- and if there's been any reveal yet as to how fleet battles will play out in Gal Civ II.  Personally, whatever happens I hope for something more dynamic than what's essentially the current system of lining ducks up and shooting them one-by-one. 

26,278 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Frogboy has already said that

GalCiv III has sublight speed, mass, rate of fire, weapons range, accuracy and evasion to deal with along with the roles of ships in a fleet.
We can therefore expect fleet battles to work quite differently. How exactly, however, is still unknown.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Don't even try to compare/suggest re fleet battles, Stardock have already re-written that part totally from ground up, just remains to be seen what they have come up with. However it would seem it is going to be radically different, and perform much much better than old fleet battles.

However they have firmly stated GalCiv is a Strategy game, and therefore fleet battles will remain broadly positioned as before - its not individual shot-em-up battles as a core part of the results, never will be with GalCiv - ever. If full blown individual shoot-em-up battles are wanted, you'll need another game, GalCiv will not be that, never will be, its a Strategy game at its Core - not tactical battles.

It does seem like the halfway house solution they have come up with may well be intriguing tho .... we'll know by the Spring when the Alpha is released.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

On the surface, Galciv2 looks to have all sorts of options for ship building, but in reality, it always boils down to having your biggest ship loaded with your best weapon.  That always annoyed me.  I too think that all hull types should be viable at any stage of the game.  More diverse ships with more diverse roles and weapons would be lovely.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Zydor, reply 2
its not individual shot-em-up battles as a core part of the results, never will be with GalCiv

I haven't seen anyone suggest turning battles into shoot-em-ups. o_O Only the typical cry for tactical battles. :annoyed:

Quoting Zydor, reply 2
its a Strategy game at its Core - not tactical battles.

Agreed, but I'm still not sure, what this has to do with shoot-em-ups. :S

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Zydor, reply 2
its a Strategy game at its Core - not tactical battles.

strategy games require strategy battles the last time a lining everyone up in a row and letting them take turns firing was a valid strategy was during the early days of gun combat i don't get why you want to keep this system so badly

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I wonder if someone is paying Zy every time he posts his " this aint no shoot-em-up" crap. If so, he's made a $million$ by now. ;P

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Zydor, reply 2

its not individual shot-em-up battles

I lol every time you write this. It's like your calling card now :3

 

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

But in this new scenario where ships receive evasion bonuses and each ship fires at ships in their weapon ranges, Fleet B could send their Tiny ships in to surround Fleet A's dreadnoughts and draw fire, while the two Medium and Large ships strike from a distance.

This scenario assumes either 1. the mediums and large outrange the huge ships and can keep out of their range or 2. the huge ships would be stupid enough to waste time firing on the tiny hulls at the expense of the bigger ships. The tiny ships could - and should - be ignored while the bigger threats are dealt with. The AI would have to be pretty stupid to fall for this tactic.

 

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting androshalforc, reply 5


Quoting Zydor, reply 2its a Strategy game at its Core - not tactical battles.

strategy games require strategy battles the last time a lining everyone up in a row and letting them take turns firing was a valid strategy was during the early days of gun combat i don't get why you want to keep this system so badly

I'm sure they also don't understand why you want to take a grand strategy franchise and turn it into Total War: Space either. ;)

Personally I'm just eager for the game to come out so there's something to talk about beside beating this dead horse.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Possibly the OP has missed out on one aspect of fleet battles in Galciv 2?

You can easily use a mix of ship sizes in a fleet, the trick is to use older weapons/less firepower on the smaller ships so the AI will not target them first. I like to have just 1 or 2 expensive ships in each fleet then use up the logistics with very cheap tiny hulled ships which are as powerful as they can be without attracting enemy fire (this depends on how powerful the main ships are).

But unfortunately all interesting strategies become moot once high end weapons start coming into play, defenses become irrelevant, HP become irrelevant. I then throw the strategy book in the bin and begin the boring slug fest and watch all my wonderfully experienced and upgraded ships that i have worked so hard on for so long turn into cannon fodder,,, go boom like they were nothing. I hope they fix this in Galciv 3?