General Balance

Hi everyone,

 

I started playing Sins Rebellion a week ago and so far had fun with the AI on normal and hard, playing as the Advent. I usually like to play my RTS games competitively to an extend, but only if the game itself is balanced. Now quickly Googling balance and sins rebellion brought rather.. disturbing news that underlined worries I got when playing vs the AI. It seems the races are not very balanced. The Vasari seem to be in the lead, followed by the TEC and with a huge gap, the Advent come last. One example: super weapons. The Advent one seems rather pathetic compared to a planet nuke that simply destroys most colonies.

 

Now my question is: am I to much of a noob still to see the inherent balance between the factions, or is competitive play pretty much one faction wins it all? (In which case I won't bother trying it at all, as I find that dull. Might as well just play chess)

 

Thanks for your insights on this!

5,758 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

Imho the Advent has one of the best superweapons. The TEC one is nearly useless because it is countered by the auxiliary government upgrade on starbases. On the other hand there's not much you can do against 3 Deliverance signals hammering your worlds... just try playing against Advent AIs and you'll find out. The Advent allegiance upgrades are also pretty good imo (for your economy).

Reply #2 Top

In competitive play a lot of vasari power in first 15 min relies in how map is set up (neutrals, choke points etc) 

And no picking right race it is not instant win button. There are some threads about who is strongest early mid and late game. Although some would argue that if game comes into late game and vasari are in decent shape they can become unstoppable but only if you play towards their strength and you know what other races strengths are and not walk into traps.  

Reply #3 Top

Geoman not sure where you got that stuff about Deliverance Engines but you are 100% wrong. Novas are the best superweapons right now. Kosturas could theoritically be better but they're almost never used (requires 8 military and 5 civic labs).

As for general balance between factions it is good i guess. Advent and Tec are almost equal in early to mid game, with vasari (like greg said) being dependent on map setup. Vasari starts getting stupid overpowered in the very late late game though (almost never lasts that long).

If you can handle the kicking, trolls, minidumps, and the crappy interface, then I 100% recommend you try the multiplayer. 

Reply #4 Top

I play advent almost exclusively on ICO.

Superweapons aren't usually an issue in competitive MP play though they do come out sometimes.

The competitive games to play are 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5's. These games are fairly fast paced ending when it's clear one side has lost to the other (i.e. people don't play to the last planet like against the AI).

Balance right now is skewed towards early game Light Frigate rushing though a balance tweak has been made upping the counter for LF from 1.33 to 1.5 (Affects all Long Range Frigates against Light Frigates).

A couple of other balance changes have been added as well that will have some good impacts overall.

 

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Sinkillr, reply 3
Geoman not sure where you got that stuff about Deliverance Engines
End of Sinkillr's quote

He might have watched one of my games....

I do not agree they are useless and in case of stalemate Advent v TEC i rather have 3 deliverance than 3 novaliths. Vasari do not come into equation here as they can back stab with their kosutras.

Not that it matter but I would like to see for vasari kosutras to have their disable effect on structures drastically reduced. 

Reply #6 Top

Now quickly Googling balance and sins rebellion brought rather.. disturbing news that underlined worries I got when playing vs the AI.
End of quote

Sins goes through periods of varying degrees of imbalance... honestly as far as faction balance is concerned I think its one of the best balanced in Sins history, which is impressive given all the stuff the expansions have been adding. However when Rebellion was first released it was pretty bad, so if you're reading older threads that probably explains that.

 

Yes there is still some concern about the Vasari, though they are infinitely more balanced than they were a year ago. Their ridiculous new Rebellion capacities are now at a more balanced level, its just their long standing late game tech advantages like phase gates and phase missiles that keep them in the number 1 spot. In the days of the original Sins this did not matter as much, since the Vasari had very severe early game disadvantages, so they were very much a race that was awesome if you survived but you were likely to die early. However, things like buffed Vasari capitalships and early offensive starbases and even quick start have made it far easier for competent Vasari players to survive until the late game, so there is not as much risk to playing them as there used to be.

 

The only reason Advent is considered the weakest is also because Vasari phase missiles hit heavily shielded units, like all the Advent's ships, much harder than anyone else. If someone made a mod where phase missile techs just increased damage instead of shield bypass chance I think the three races would be very close to each other indeed.