What are you talking about. America is a wonderful country. And I am a proud god-fearing citizen. A patriotic citizen. A well-behaved citizen. The sort of citizen you definitely wouldn't be interested in monitoring.

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It really doesn't make any difference where Mr. Snowden ends up, I have no doubt that he will live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder and checking out reflections in windows and always wondering about today, let alone tomorrow.

Odd thing about life, at the end of the day no one other than ourselves are responsible for our actions.

I don't think where he ends up or what objective Snowden tries to achieve matters. if you look out your window. Everyday there are people going around the place working, living out their lives.. at the end of the day, people just want a way of living, as long as the events don't truly affect them, they won't do anything about it, that is until something starts to affect them, then they will start the resistance, just like how most of you are reacting now, but since none of you are physically affected, there won't be many of you who will try to do anything about it. see Nazi Germany? they didn't choose to be what they are, they BECAME what they are, and the same thing will also happen to US. It is inevitable... unless there is someone to stop us, which there isn't anyone, we are the sole superpower that remained from the cold war, we accumulated immeasurable power throughout the years, who is going to stop us? we got the largest military in the world, death and destruction awaits those who would choose to threaten our stability. in the end, the only thing that can threaten us, is the entire globe uniting against US, but even then, that might not be enough, we can just simply send nukes throughout the world, those government elites would do it! those we are truly in control, i have no doubt they will not give a single thought of hesitation to send nukes throughout the world if they feel threatened. sooner or later people are going to realize, in order to have any change, the rotten apple would have to be get rid of through unconventional means. just like a disease, disease don't cure itself, your body fight the disease and after sacrificing many many white blood cells, then only then is the disease cured.

GlobalSecurity . org has an article on the 'fallout' of Snowden's attempt to shed some sunlight into a shadowy part of the U$ govt. http://sitrep.globalsecurity.org/articles/130617908-the-edward-snowden-affair-demo.htm It makes some interesting observations about the mainstream media in the U$A.

Interesting article. The tone is a bit antagonistic, but it does have a point.

Uncle Sam is evil! He should turn in his red, white and blue. Give him black and white instead as in prison stripes.

Sadly all the wiretapping, and security problems were supported by the majority in our country. Sure the reasons were a farse (war on terror), but the people were all willing to sacrifice their freedoms nonetheless.

Among the terrible things our government does because the people want it done.

Drones- How often do you hear attacks that the government is too weak on terrorism? the people demand the harshest swiftest 'justice' to be brough down upon terrorists in a discreet manner with minimal risk to personnel. Had it gone the other way the people would be just as angry that the government wasn't using the drones.

Wiretapping- Patriot act. wiretapping has been around for like a decade now. Majority supported it. Suddenly now people are mad because somehow everyone simultaneously thought they were exempt from the wiretapping.

 

and this incident. We've been spying on all the world powers for decades, and they spy on us. Everyone wants the government to do everything it can to stop terrorists, and then were ashamed when it looks bad. 'The government' didn't do this. We did. We voted for it. We demanded it and, like a pack of stockholders frantically selling stocks to a company they destroyed, we are distancing ourselves and taking zero accountability for our actions and ignorance as citizens.

 The bottom line is. Snowden is a traitor. He hurt our country's reputation by releasing ducuments he was sworn to secrecy over. If you are an American this is no cause for celebration. Had this been an internal affair about wether we should be spying I would have a different opinion, but releasing this information to Russia and china is a terrible act by a man that is bent on hurting the country as much as he can

 

 

I doubt seriously that any other state of this world, even China and Russia was remotly close to spying on that magnitude.

 

 

The thief blames the policeman... how absurd.

 

Seriously.... the loss of reputation for your country is entirely its own fault.

 

The US show more and more worrying tendencies into fascism, we can only hope that its citizens will wake up in time. 

 

 

In an internal affair.... Snowden would have been silenced..... in Guantanamo.Or with an unfortunate  "accident".

 

 

I remember the case of Wikileaks and Manning.... over 250000 people had and probably still have similar access....

 

Rest assured...... all that data is known to the world powers for years... just not public knowledge.

 

Same for Snowden.

 

 

That doesnt make any sense. Why would he go public if his own well being is his only interest? The guy earned arround 300000 a year, that is not exactly a bad salary.

 

Staying hidden he could have been anywhere on the world, selling this data to the higgest bidder- 

 

Instead he makes it public..... which doesnt pay in anything but admiration and respect, you try to make a living from that.

 

 

If Mr. Snowden wanted to sell data to the Russians..... he would not be locked down on some airport.

 

Putin is an asshole.... no doubt about that.... but he is smart asshole..... he would not hesitate to bring Snowden into the safety of some cozy hidden spot, if that would suit his politics.

 

So why doesnt he?

 

Because it appears Mr Snowden does not want to do the stuff Putin demands him to do for his continued freedom.

 

That does make that traitor thing a but unlikely, dont you think?

 

However with the US using all of their diplomatic pressure to secure Snowden, staying in Russia may be his only reasonable choice of action soon.

 

The US are lucky anyway.... european leaders are nothing but spineless slime and didnt do anything reasonable so far.

 

 

The EU needs to finally realize that the USA have no care in the world for their well being, and that they are only interested in their own good.

 

 

The US are an superpower in decline..... within the next few decades China will take over.

 

Deep in their heart they know that..... and they are desperatly trying to slow the process. By any means necessary.

 

Which is dumb..... because all those people and states you bullied into submission when you were still strong will remember that when you are not anymore.... and then take revenge by leaving you standing alone. 

 

 

 

 

I'd bet that is not for lack of trying.

 

50 billion dollars a year? And that is just the official figure... 

 

Altough of course, now after even the most dumbest dicator will realize its potential... we can expect a lot more of this shit.

 

Thank you America!

We live in 2013 you could easily just said Germany back in 1945 instead of Nazi Germany in 2013 -considering that not only Germany was under the regime of Hitler -where were you in history class man?
Sole Superpower? Did you ever look beyond the borders of US... Not every country can be invaded by the US easy.
If the rest of the world would Unite...uhm ?
If we stop thinking for a minute and consider that this is possible even though we know that the US has "Allies" in reality- If the rest of the World would Unite it would roflstomp the US. the only reason not to do so would be a nuclear holocaust.

It´s funny how some folks literally have to push the US just to show how “superior” it is compared to the rest of the World, if it would be that great, there would be no need to call it out every time on every occasion -people would know.
Everyone would clap their Hands and would try to live in the land of opportunity.
I wonder when we start saying “we” with a view that is not only focused to where we live or the skin color. Not doing so is primitive,e like me right now answering to this trolling nonsense. But nobody else has so I do it..
But with all the soldiers send into war like meat, like their lives can be replaced, by another with all the corruption going on, secret clans, social treatment lacking, prison over education investment, total surveillance so that meanwhile taking a poop without someone knowing is pretty tough, I don’t feel it to be superior from an outside view.
No offense but if I would live in the US it would piss me off – there I said it but I pardon myself for saying so since I know folks will be pissed that I did. While this isn´t aimed on the good folks living in the US personally … but it is at the system and its people running the show the guys that don’t give a damn about your well-being, the guys that see you as a number and profit from YOU for some more years while you labor until your gone wasting precious resources.
Im talking about people that spin their own net and watch the rest struggle and claim to serve a common good while they serve only one their own.

I’m moved and pissed by your post and to be honest I’m not happy that “we” as I have to say, so ”you” know I’m talking about the rest of the puny World in this/my case Germany and so “you” understand and don’t feel threatened in the lead as awesome country- “WE” as “YOU” refer as NAZI Germany  jump onto the same humiliating control train here as well because our Pres. is just flapping her cheeks to MR Obama and smiles to every word he is saying like an IDIOT. 
Catching them voting secretly and making decisions about the country that is still a Democracy and about the people living in it is part of it. As I said voting is just to make you think you have a choice these days. The last legit stuff is known to be years back and happened  before my time.
But that probably does not interest you anyway since it is happening out of ZONE awesome* Anyways back to the runner…

with Prism and now Tempora UK in full motion there are only a few places S. can move and ask for asylum however I think he will never be safe once settled and location known the US will have its way simply because there is too much budget in the game and bc a lot of folks would be angry to have invested into something that gets on full hold because of information floating around that is why he would simply disappear in the US.
He possibly will anyways, if the guy gets lucky he will find a cosmetic surgery with an amazing surgeon for a new look and gets a new identity so that he can´t be spotted immediately,  but info can always be bought, to many folks that are poor willing to do everything to help out their families. USA is known for playing well 
That is how I think about it.
I would  like to post a video that was quite interesting while it was based on just a theory
As far as I remember it was called Hyper History and Cyber war and how a information apocalypse could happen.

 

when i said Nazi Germany it is quite obvious that i was referring to Germany back in 1945, i don't see what the fuss is. we are the sole super power the remained from the cold war, we HAVE accumulated immeasurable amount of power. if you want to dispute this, argue it from the military point of view. i am a troll? thanks for that, i think you are a troll, its just a matter of opinion.

lastly, OKAY, do you really think! that if the world UNIT against US, they can drag US down? ok, since you don't like me to use We, because i don't think me and you are of the same anyway, i won't. US will mow down those that would dare to oppose it with its overwhelming military strength. that is if it becomes a total war scenario, which at that point it will be. US wins by default due to the sheer amount of forces and amount of bases we have. technically wouldn't be a win, but we will be the last one standing. oops, US will be the last one standing.

I did not say that I would not like you or that i would not like you to use WE, i encourage you to do so, what i did not like was the statement Nazi Germany according to the current time.
And I mainly wrote this because it was left standing the way it is... and because it was an insult to the current generation.
Also US isn´t the only Military super force what about Russia or China ?
Don´t get me wrong I have nothing against patriotism or the US as I said before I don’t like driving force behind it.
The "WE" phrase I used is to make clear that there is more outside the US since you written it like there was nothing else but dirt.
Also if there is a total war scenario as you refer to neither any of the military infantry or the people in what every country will play a role since we all will suffer the same fate of the few hands from the people that will enter the code to unlock and the finger that launches followed by starvation radiation and death since we all live from trading import/export.
It really doesn’t matter who got the biggest dong on the table then.

Godwinian nonsense aside, he does have a point:

 

 

I'd more call it complacency. This operation was never put up for a public vote- it was concocted and executed by the usual group of military and paramilitary figures within the American intelligence system.

(What the hell is a uniformed, active-duty general doing in charge of an intelligence agency, anyway? That sort of interdepartmental cross-pollination just seems weird to me.)

 

I seriously think you're giving them far too much credit for subtlety. Usually, when the government gets mad enough to directly "silence" someone, it's a big, long, showboaty process where most of the information leaks out anyway. Look at Bradley Manning. Look at Gitmo itself.

 

Okay, sorry i don't meant any offense when i mention nazi germany, germany and nazi germany are different, its like say black people are black but you know they will get mad if you just saying black people... i understand, i understand... i also understand that some black people are not black and mentioning that they are black is in fact an inaccuracy on my part. and my example may not reflect the actual reality which is about Nazy germany and germany, but if you let me go on about this, i will keep going on about it with no end, so i will stop with i didn't mean to associate the current germany generation with nazi germany generation, though i don't understand how that would be an insult, i mean i do, its just didn't think it would hurt that much even if you do interpret that way.

Okay. you agree that, if there is a total war scenario that no side will win, pretty much everyone after the global scale nuclear blast would suffer from radiation and stuff. but the US will be the last one standing. without a shred of doubt, US will! even if the main land US gets completely decimated during the nuclear holocaust, that would only imply all other countries' mainland would also get completely decimated because US will retaliate with their nuclear forces, and i was talking about who is the last one standing. some of the US' offshore bases will definitely remain.

Kinda getting 'political' here, guys....and for those new to these forums... 'politics' is a prohibited topic in "Everything Else".

All that aside, let's ALL refrain from references to 'nazi Germany' with inference that is a status quo.  It is not.  Likewise with any other reference/s to discriminatory statement.... - it violates the TOU.

The reason we are particular about discriminatory statements is that Stardock's sites, although 'specifically' English [in language use] know no boundaries globally.  Here [as with most places on the Internet] you can and will be 'rubbing shoulders' with people from all corners of the globe.

A 'glib' statement from you may be quite repugnant to others.

 

Yes, exactly... by the time people realized how bad the situation has become, it was well to late to stop the responsible persons.

 

The first entity responsible for stopping the US are its voters. Although, to be honest, I am not sure if they are up to the job.

 

 

It is true that after the fall of the Sowjetunion the US become the only remaining super power. However they wont hold that position for long. Within the next few decades, China will become a superpower too.... with 3 to 4 times the population of the US and a similar level of technology. India is another card in this game, once they have finished their development. The European Union with it 500 million people is another canditate for super power status, assuming it overcomes its internal struggles. And I would not write off russia alltogether, they are still sitting on a ton of resources and still posess enough nuclear firepower to put an end to all life on earth.

 

 

I highly doubt that the US would win any conventional war today with China, the EU or Russia. They wont win any conventional war against india in a few decades.

Even with a - waning - technological advantage on their side, numerical superiority of the other states would be impossible to overcome.  Just a short comparsion:

Russia: 143 millions

USA: 314 millions

EU: 504 millions

India: 1210 millions

China 1339 millions

 

All of the US wars since WW2 were against enemies that either had a notable lower technology level or far fewer numbers. None of that would be true against the above mentioned potential super powers.

 

That leaves only the nuclear option.... which does lead right into the end of the world as we know it, as the resulting nuclear winter will decimate the world population to a few 10000 people, independent of where the nukes hit.

 

The last one standing, will not be a state of any kind, but a few pity survivors here and there.

 

 

That is quite unlikely, in such a scenario. 

 

 

 

Minor logic flaw.... if there is total war arround the world.... do you really think that those base have a life expectancy that is counted in anything but hours?

 

The US today, can have many bases in certain regions, because said regions know, that if they make trouble, the US will pay them a little visit.

 

With a war against another super power however, the US will have far bigger worries than some odd base somewhere in nowhere. And as such all those states and regions that so far were bullied into submission may decide that it is time to end the US presence here once and for all.

 

Not to mention, that I fail to see how a few pity survivors on a - miraculous - unaffected base can reasonable be counted as "stil standing".

 

 

 

Indeed, back to the original topic:

 

Mr. Snowden now has officialy stated to seek asylum in Russia.... albeit temporarly.

 

Maybe it wasnt the wisest of ideas to make such a witchhunt, leaving him little choice but to stay in Russia.

 

Putin again gloated by stating "Snowden is welcome, if he stops harming our american partners".

 

Partners... sure..... must be fun being Putin right now sticking out the tongue to the US by suggesting that those 2 states are friendly partners.

 

 

 

 

 

Just brings to mind a scene from one of my favorite movies, Sneakers (1992):

There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information! The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons.

  Oh boy, ain't that the truth. 

By the way a pretty good movie also.

Whatever the particulars regarding Snowden, several things are clear.  One, his actions have moved the 'discussion' about whats appropriate in info gathering/spying/etc. to a more widespread group - and that is a good consequence.  Two, given that the US president (both/either party) has the 'power' to kill US citizens on US soil, without any constitutional restraints, by merely changing the US citizen from "citizen" to 'terrorist' (or 'traitor, mr Cheny?), Snowden is behaving in a very human fashion - were you in his shoes, would you trust the your constitutional rights would be protected should you return to US soil?  Since the US has, in recent history, publicly disavowed many of its longstanding humanitarian commitments (water-boarding is torture, re-labeling it "enhanced interrogation' is a rejection of the [spirit if not the letter of] the Geneva Accords, and a perfect example of Orwellian language manipulation.  Also, unlike the wiki leaks which named many operatives and exposed them to personal danger, Snowdens 'leaks' so far, have been primarily about systems, not individuals. The final thing I would suggest is a discussion about who has the right to declare someone a 'traitor, ' or 'terrorist?'   I find it very interesting that the exact same behavior can also cause someone to become a 'political refugee.'  Who decides?  Who is 'right?'

I decide, and Snowden is right, for the very reasons you raised.

 

This farce of a "war" has become absurd.

Remember Nixon...........he got caught. Show me any administration that isn't involved in looking inside someone's cookie jar be they friend or foe. Everybody does it. Its when they get caught or caught out that they bitch, moan and groan like little kiddies.

I think that as far as scale goes, this is beyond Nixonian. That, and Nixon acted for personal political gain, with a group of personal political henchmen. Here, we see a whole agency if not more getting involved.

I agree, and when all these alphabet soup agencies are bugging judges, politicians, and even POTUS, tell me these agencies don't use that power for their own self interests.

Sibel Edmonds Blows the Whistle on Government Blackmailing