Late Game Lag

I've played a lot with Rebellion 1.1 and while I took a break for a while I just came back and am excited to see the 1.5 patch being actively developed. I just have one concern, and that is the speed of the game in the later stages, especially on the new maps that were included in 1.1

I have heard before that Rebellion is entirely CPU-limited in terms of performance. I have an i7-3610, which while it isn't the best proc out there it is certainly up there. With that, no matter what graphics settings I use the game will inevitably slow down to about 1/2 or 1/3rd speed in the late game with 10 players, making it not fun to play after that. I just wanted to ask the devs if they are looking at any performance optimizations for the 1.5 patch or if this is as good as it is going to get.

32,039 views 26 replies
Reply #1 Top

This is as good as it will get, as Sins is a 32-bit application.

Reply #2 Top

There may be some optimizations, but as Lavo mentioned the core issue of Sins not using all of your processor is a hard technical limitation. That said, most graphics options do not really affect the CPU. The setting changes you want to make are things like hiding trade ship icons, stacking units in the Empire tree or just hiding as much stuff on the Empire tree as possible. It's the number of different stuff the game has to render and keep track of that slows the CPU, not graphics computations, that should be done by your GPU.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 2

There may be some optimizations, but as Lavo mentioned the core issue of Sins not using all of your processor is a hard technical limitation. That said, most graphics options do not really affect the CPU. The setting changes you want to make are things like hiding trade ship icons, stacking units in the Empire tree or just hiding as much stuff on the Empire tree as possible. It's the number of different stuff the game has to render and keep track of that slows the CPU, not graphics computations, that should be done by your GPU.
End of GoaFan77's quote

Yeah, I'm well aware that sins isn't multi-threaded and so will only use one of my 8 cores. I was mainly hoping that since the devs added Vast random maps that they should support them running reasonably well on modern hardware.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting ls612, reply 3


Yeah, I'm well aware that sins isn't multi-threaded and so will only use one of my 8 cores. I was mainly hoping that since the devs added Vast random maps that they should support them running reasonably well on modern hardware.
End of ls612's quote

The new maps were added primarily for multiplayer, where the games do not last more than a few hours. If you're playing them for much longer then I'm not surprised it seems bad.

Reply #5 Top

Now that think about it, I remember in Diplomacy they had an update it that reduced lag greatly. (it was still there, though)

Shouldn't it be possible to deal with it again in Rebellion? Since the lag seems to be back to...erm, "normal". lol

Reply #6 Top

Quoting BellGoRiiing, reply 5

Now that think about it, I remember in Diplomacy they had an update it that reduced lag greatly. (it was still there, though)

Shouldn't it be possible to deal with it again in Rebellion? Since the lag seems to be back to...erm, "normal". lol
End of BellGoRiiing's quote

The big lag reducer I remember as being Rebellion 0.90 (Beta 3), which literally doubled the speed of late games on my old PC.

Reply #7 Top

The devs have implemented some more performance optimizers for 1.5. And I am sure as they find more they would patch it in.

Reply #8 Top

You can try to OC your processor as GHz on single core are best remedy for late game lag.

As for devs optimizing it Yes they did a good job with last patch for diplo but then they added more content with Rebelion and improved graphic so that set them back to same square before that update

Reply #9 Top

The i7 already overclocks itself, not sure how much more OCing it could take before melting.

But this is a problem, not as much for me as it is more of a RAM issue...

Reply #10 Top

I have I7 with base of 2.7GHz OC to 4 GHz. I do have custom water cooling loop on it. With 100% load (prime torture test) temp reaching about 61 degrees Celsius.

This OC enable me to play smooth games until about 1h into the game on huge random maps with 1 player and 9 vicious all settings faster. Keep in mind vicious max their fleet (2000 fleet supply) 20 min into the game. Not sure what actual game time is because I change game speed as needed....

Reply #11 Top

Sins needs a 64 bit executable fast.. My retina 15 can handle most of the issues but when I play on ICO I run into a situation where the server says I'm "lagging" but it stops doing that when I lower my graphics settings.  

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Greg30007, reply 10

I have I7 with base of 2.7GHz OC to 4 GHz. I do have custom water cooling loop on it. With 100% load (prime torture test) temp reaching about 61 degrees Celsius.

This OC enable me to play smooth games until about 1h into the game on huge random maps with 1 player and 9 vicious all settings faster. Keep in mind vicious max their fleet (2000 fleet supply) 20 min into the game. Not sure what actual game time is because I change game speed as needed....
End of Greg30007's quote

I do no overclocking (so I'm getting 3.1 Ghz on one core) and it goes fine for me until 2 or 3 hrs, about when everyone gets max fleets. I don't see memory issues much, even with 1.5 though. I'm just hoping the devs will comment on this one way or another since they are working again on Rebellion.

Reply #13 Top

I think this is as good as it is gonna get short of re-writing Sins in 64 bit. Which the dev's said repeatedly will not happen. Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age. Stardock seems to be doing all it can do to help the late game lag issue, and support the game. Only suggestion i can say other than what was already said is to play on smaller maps.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Major, reply 13

I think this is as good as it is gonna get short of re-writing Sins in 64 bit. Which the dev's said repeatedly will not happen. Stardock seems to be doing all it can do to help the late game lag issue. Only suggestion i can say other than what was already said is to play smaller maps.
End of Major's quote

Or shorter games... or with smaller fleets... or with fewer strikecraft.

Reply #15 Top

Basically the more objects on the map at any given time (planets, ships, structures, strike craft, trade ships,) equals more lag. So you have to find ways to limit the amount of objects.

Reply #16 Top

Yeah, I agree that the amount of ships is a big part of it.  While not having enough video / cpu power to render is one problem, games lag with big fleets even if you are panned way out.  Adding corvettes to the game did not help lag.  One game I played someone made like 800 corvettes and there was a 2 second lag every time he gave his fleet a move order. 

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 16

Yeah, I agree that the amount of ships is a big part of it.  While not having enough video / cpu power to render is one problem, games lag with big fleets even if you are panned way out.  Adding corvettes to the game did not help lag.  One game I played someone made like 800 corvettes and there was a 2 second lag every time he gave his fleet a move order. 
End of Cykur's quote

Well, you can't build 800 corvettes with normal fleet sizes... so:

Was it the Corvettes or his shitty comp or someone elses shitting comp?

 

Reply #18 Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 17
Well, you can't build 800 corvettes with normal fleet sizes... so:
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

Remember they used to be as low as 1 fleet supply.  ;)

Reply #19 Top


I've played a lot with Rebellion 1.1 and while I took a break for a while I just came back and am excited to see the 1.5 patch being actively developed. I just have one concern, and that is the speed of the game in the later stages, especially on the new maps that were included in 1.1

I have heard before that Rebellion is entirely CPU-limited in terms of performance. I have an i7-3610, which while it isn't the best proc out there it is certainly up there. With that, no matter what graphics settings I use the game will inevitably slow down to about 1/2 or 1/3rd speed in the late game with 10 players, making it not fun to play after that. I just wanted to ask the devs if they are looking at any performance optimizations for the 1.5 patch or if this is as good as it is going to get.

End of quote

Scale the map size by the number of players, and don't be playing on huge 100+ asset maps.  Ideal for 6 players is about 50 assets.

The same problem exists in SupCom.  You work your way around it, and don't let the ambition of the game engine get away from you.

I also have rescaled strikecraft, trade/refinary ships, and fleet size/costs in my mods.  That's another big part.

Reply #20 Top

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....
End of Seleuceia's quote

You have been listening to Carbon too much. :P

Reply #22 Top

All capital ships, SBs, titans, and hangars still have SC....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Albeit, not very many...

Reply #23 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....
End of Seleuceia's quote

Quoting Ryat, reply 21


Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20
I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

You have been listening to Carbon too much.
End of Ryat's quote

I think Infinite Space has done that as well. I just increased the fleet supply use of carrier cruisers and buffed the stats of strikecraft to compensate.

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Major, reply 13
Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age.
End of Major's quote

We can only hope Sins of a Dark Age is 64-bit and the engine easily reusable.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting SithLordAJ, reply 24


Quoting Major Stress, reply 13Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age.

We can only hope Sins of a Dark Age is 64-bit and the engine easily reusable.
End of SithLordAJ's quote

Is that a mod?

Sorry it's just I never heard of it.