suggestion: 1 champion per stack

from Elemental Forums

So as I was reading about the desire to create more of an intertwining between your empire and your champions.  What if by default, you could only have one champion at a time per stack of units?  I think you would be forced to create more units, which would in turn force you to build your empire and research tech to more directly affect the outcome of your army strength.  There could even be buildings (probably requiring a high level city and/or a tech) that would allow you to add a 2nd or 3rd champion to your army.  Since you may be having more idle champions, add more traits that affect your city, and give xp for governing a city.  

Also in order to purchase decent armor or weapons, you would need a forge, weaponsmith, armorer, etc depending on the grade of weapon/armor.  Alchemists add potions, scribes add scrolls, why not the same kind of linking for weapons, armor, and accessories?  Your town could get you your bread and meat to regen health, your fortress gets you your advanced mundane armor/weapons, and your conclave gets you your fancy magical stuff.  You could even require dual techs/buildings for some stuff.  In order to make an uber magical cold enchanted longsword, you first have to be able to master the creation of a regular longsword.

Just a few thoughts, that I think could be worked into the game at some point, or even a mod.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9,708 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

You are already more or less limited to one champion per army, at least without the correct trait investments as they level up (heavily nerfed exp). Champions also aren't that powerful, so if you aren't using and leveling regular units you are already gimping yourself. I've had normal units late game with 400 attack, 90 armor, and 700 health, on their own, a single company of 7. Nothing more needs to be done here, people just need to get away from the perception that because they are doing well with a few champions that it's somehow the best strategy, it's not.

I like your idea about forges/equipment.

Cross tree tech requirements used to be a part of the game, that concept was removed quite recently (very end of beta, just before release I believe). I doubt they are going to bring it back.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I never build any units and instead just do stacks of champions.  A stack of 6 heros gives me 10 movement points per turn so I can protect my large empire from MOB incursions.  Plus I have 30 initiative on most of my heros which means I go first and can stun lock most MOBs. Also for major quest zone MOBs I cast haste which gives me 40 initiative and again I can stun lock them (except the first turn...).

I keep tax rates at None so I can spam out settlers and expand quickly.  Given some of my heros have Merchant they actually make money every turn instead of costing me money so my upkeep isn't that high.

That said, 400 attack is pretty incredible.  In my current game I'm getting close to the end and I never found a single great weapon so my stack isn't as strong as most games.  My stack of 6 heros total attack is 198 with 195 defense, 100% resist's, and 511 hit points. 

So IMO you can go all champions if you want :)

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top


So IMO you can go all champions if you want

And you would be CORRECT. But, we have MIN/MAXERS in these games that THINK you have to play OPTIMALLY to gain victory which is WRONG. I see them do this in MMO's as well. Somebody comes along with a COOKIE CUTTER build that CLAIMS there's nothing better and the LEMMINGS flock to it like flies on you know what THINKING there's nothing ELSE out there that will work. It's laughable more than anything.

Play what YOU enjoy and don't listen to or follow the LEMMINGS. ;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

2 champs isn't that bad.  You kill more things safely/easily and gain the XP quickly without need of troops.

 

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Do your champs split xp up when they share a stack?

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Champions split the xp up when together, and that may discourage you from massing them up, but here are a few points:

1. Loot can only be used by champions and henchmen, so while you have as much standard equipment to create custom units with as you have metal and crystal, there are some fancy items which far surpass anything that you can make, and only champs can use em.  I find it also a lot easier to tank up a champion than a trained unit starting from the early game.  Many enchantments are champion only also.

2. Champions share experience, but if by using more than one champion in an army allows you to fight and win more battles, then that is better than putting off a fight and its rewards till later.  Having 2 champions fight in two separate but equal battles is the same overall experience for each champion as if you fought both battles with one champion each, and trainer gives you more experience if you join them up.

3. By saving time that could be spent on long term research and building infrastructure, you can get "ahead" if champions do a lot of the heavy lifting.  You will probably be caught "with your pants down" if you totally neglect the training of and researching of unit techs, because numbers will overwhelm.

 

I often have at least 1 champion go path of the governor early now to offset the population lost by creating pioneers, unless I get a really good combat champion or some sweet items early.  I try to get my sovereign some fast early levels to raise prestige as well.  If my strategy does not involve creating some early units, or I haven't found some nice quest reward units or have summons, I will usually stack up my champions so that I can keep taking out monsters, quests, and lairs or fend off early unexpected wars.

 

Also the map size will affect your strategy.  On smaller maps I can use champions to win an early war and not even worry about getting deep in the magic or war trees to make some uber armies.  I think that the longer the game, the more you will be forced to use and focus on units.  You will not be able to be everywhere at once with your champion stack on a large map, so you might as well get some beefy units in there and split them up.

The suggestions were just to create more integration between your civilization and your army and one thing right now is that it is viable to use champions together even if the best strategy involves diverging and splitting them up in circumstances.  You can rush opponents (factions and mobs) with champions and with some luck on loot you can ramp up your champions power quickly and independently of any empire building going on, especially if you are an adventurer (Altar), and then you don't even have to raise the gildar.