Enough with the Monster nonsense

from Stardock Forums

I was looking forward to the Beta 4 and was really enjoying the new feature and look and feel. Much improved. So I get war delcred on me. No big deal and I capture a city. Of course after I get it, I find there is this like lv 50 Dragon right next door. Right next (and I mean the sq right next to the dragon) there is an outpost owned by the person I am war with.

So I park everyone in the city hoping I can fend off the dragon (which has 184 HP btw !!!). And wait. And wait. Wait some more and nothing happens. Dragon does not move. Even with the outpost right next door.

So I go over and take over the outpost. Dragon immeadiately activates and kills everyone. Then trots over and kills my city. Time to reload.

Create a Scout. He goes over and caputures the outpost. Dragon comes alive, kills the scout and trots over and kills the city with everyone in it. Time to reload.

Fine! I leave the damn outpost alone. The guy I am at war with comes calling with an army. Ends up next to the city near the dragon. Dragon comes alive and starts heading to the city. The army moves towards the dragon and I think great, the dragon is going to kill this guy off for me. Dragon hops in the square with the army and I think all is good. But NO!!! The dragon does not do anything. The guys army moves THROUGH the same square the dragon is in with nothing happening. Must be nice because I sure as hell can't do that.

This explains how a city was built so close to the dragon in the first place. The AI can completely ignore monsters and treat them like they do not exist while we get our clock cleaned. And apparently monsters ignore the AI players as well.

Reload once again. Move everyone out of the city and just let the damned city die. Dragon eventually kills the city and wanders off God knows where. Create a pioneer and figure I would just resettle now that the dragon is gone. Imanage my shock when I find out that I cannot settle in the same exact location where the AI had been able to settle. So the AI can settle places where I cannot? It was next to a river, not close to anyothe cities/outposts etc. But no joy for the human team :(O

This monster ignoring the AI crap has been going on since the beginning (and I have been bitching about it since the beginning too). If a Deadly Dragon is going to be running around the countryside, EVERYONE should be affected, not just the human player. Also, while I am on my rant, why the hell is something that powerfull even strating that close to my beginning cities in the first place? I had only built two cities and captured a third when all this happened (50-75 turns in). So it was not like I was pushing deep into the bowels of the map or anything.

As you might guess from the above, this is a game breaker for me. Monster should NOT be joining (in effect) with the AI to beat down the human player. If this is meant to be play balance, it sucks. If the dragon is going to level my city, it should have damn well have destroyed the AIs city long before I got there (plus anything else even close around it.). Much less the AI founding an outpost right next to the damn thing and the dragon never bats an eye. But heaven help me if I take over the outpost.

So now I will just wait for Beta 5 and pray to God something is done about this in that beta. But as this has been going on for so long, I am NOT holding my breath.

BTW my settings were all on normal and Large map. Dragon was about 15 tiles from my starting location too. And if anyone needs a save game to see what is going on, I have plenty of them :(

15,556 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

That is most certainly a bug. You ought to provide the save so that the devs can play it and see what is happening. Monsters are supposed to treat us and the AI the same way. This is pretty good proof that it is not happening. I have noticed less atrocious acts of kindness by the monster AI. Yours is pretty bad though.

Don't give up on beta 4 just because of this. If you still want to play the save and continue you need to learn some beta cheats. There are two ways to get rid of unwanted pests. Ctrl+T will relocate a monster that is playing unfair. I use this when something like that happens. Ctrl+K will kill the beast. Make sure you have the right unit selected though! This measure is sometimes necessary to kill something that shouldn't be there and keeps coming back. I notice that many creatures ignore Warden upgrades on my outposts. These tools are unfortunately necessary during some parts of the beta. 

On the other hand, I have seen some really good monster AI as well. It seems that the monsters are getting better, but sometimes get messed up or confused. There is so much game beyond monster AI, I would hate to see you wait for beta 5 just because of a little bug.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


I have to agree with the monster problem. Early game it does not even take something as deadly as a dragon to ruin a decent start. Even a cave bear can tear through three militia units guarding a city. Then of course because the city is destroyed that location is no longer  able to be settled (which makes no sense.)

Last few games it has been umberdroths causing most the problem. Even a hundred turns (on epic) into a game it is dangeorus enough to rip through a whole army and champions.

Then of course if you do clear all the monsters your army has nothing to gain xp killing except for opposing armies.

 

 

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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 1
That is most certainly a bug. You ought to provide the save so that the devs can play it and see what is happening. Monsters are supposed to treat us and the AI the same way. This is pretty good proof that it is not happening. I have noticed less atrocious acts of kindness by the monster AI. Yours is pretty bad though.

Don't give up on beta 4 just because of this. If you still want to play the save and continue you need to learn some beta cheats. There are two ways to get rid of unwanted pests. Ctrl+T will relocate a monster that is playing unfair. I use this when something like that happens. Ctrl+K will kill the beast. Make sure you have the right unit selected though! This measure is sometimes necessary to kill something that shouldn't be there and keeps coming back. I notice that many creatures ignore Warden upgrades on my outposts. These tools are unfortunately necessary during some parts of the beta. 

On the other hand, I have seen some really good monster AI as well. It seems that the monsters are getting better, but sometimes get messed up or confused. There is so much game beyond monster AI, I would hate to see you wait for beta 5 just because of a little bug.

 

While not a 'little' bug imho |-) your suggestions on how to work around it are very helpful. I will try them out and let you know how it works. Thanks for the assist.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

But if you really want to help out, the point isn't to work around it, but (as SeanW suggested) supply the developers with a saved game.  Because they've repeatedly stated that this AI conduct is not supposed to be occurring.  I'm sure they would very much like to see your game, and figure out how they might improve their beta.  Better now, than after release.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting boredpeon, reply 2
Even a cave bear can tear through three militia units guarding a city. Then of course because the city is destroyed that location is no longer  able to be settled (which makes no sense.)

You have no seen Cave bear droppings, what happens is actually that the cave bear eats the WHOLE of the population, meaby taking prisoners for later consumption, then they will of course get rid of excess protein, and this part gives birth to a new devastating but short-lived pest that eats all the houses, and all nearby vegetation, when they are done they die out, and the corpses of these new pests will spoil the earth, making it a wasteland of deadly gas and barren rocks.

Joking aside, both Sean and OP is right, provide the savegame, and Debug.err, meaby some screen shots to help show off whatever the issue is exactly (in this case a big hungry dragon).

Hope it gets look at, I have a big hungry dragon in my current game strolling right outside my city, but I have no idea if it is going to eat my city, it wanders confused around in cirkles and I am rushing to reinforce the city ASAP. (Turn 92, it have been wandering there for more than 10 turns).

Now I would not call MY dragon as bugged as yours, then again the AI is pretty far away, so it did not have time to bug out like that :D

heres the save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/corheac3scax35h/Dragon%20Needs%20Hugs.EleSav

Screenshot:

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I have noticed the same thing. The AI establishing cities literally right next to a monster lair tile. The instant I take the city, the creature goes berserk. Now I was using it to my advantage in an earlier game. Since I didn't actually want the cities, I was using the monsters as an indirect way to get around the 5 turn Raze timer. All I had to do was vacate the city since they would attack on the very next turn every time.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Never mind the monster problem, what about the AI problem?  All the AI, at the same time, declared war on me.  This was on easy and I didn't stand a cat in hells chance, they all walked straight into my towns, what is the point of that?

At the moment this game is a pile of rubbish and zero fun to play.  I can't understand how anyone could think it fun.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Yep, it's still an issue. I've seen two instances of non-Tarth civs building right next door to River slags with no problem. Combined with pio-spam it gives the AI a huge advantage.

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Add the word cheat with a space right after the exe in the shortcut and your issues are solved :) Now whenever an army shows up use CTRL T to teleport them to the other side of the map if you are feeling kind. Or use CTRL K and just kill them off. I am using that to get around the dragon issue in my OP and it works great. I must admit the game is a LOT more enjoyable now :)

 

If anyone wants to see what I talked about in the OP, here is my save.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/czvm473xnbod8vw/Dragon.EleSav