Planetary Defense Vessels? Ships that use tactical points instead of fleet supply but can't jump out of the system.

This is about the tenth time I see this idea in less than two months...

Anyway I am not in favor of these kind of moving turrets (which in they actually are in their essence). This because it would render conventional turrets useless compared to their new relocatable brethren and would also make defenders nearly impossible to push over.

Better idea to expand planetary defense would be planetside (surface-to-space) weapons capable of firing into orbit. It would make now underused siege frigates more useful, since in order to defeat them, you will have to destroy the planet.

For the vanilla game, I agree...but for modded versions this type of ship could be absolutely key to making certain things viable....

As an example, consider mods meant for extremely large/open maps (such as Aplos' Stars mod)...when you are dealing with dozens of planets that connect to every other planet, being able to rally a small defense quickly would be essential to fighting off small raids...however, these ships would hardly do much of anything against a determined attack...

I do not think having these ships cost tactical slots would be the best approach...I'd rather have a separate limit on how many of these things could be deployed in a gravity well that is independent of everything else...

Barring radical changes made by the devs, there are only three possibilities that I see viable for implementing these:

1. Frigates with disabled phase jump - an ability (either on the planet itself, a structure, or an SB) would deploy one at a time...there are ways to get this so that only so many can be in a gravity well at once, but perfecting it is difficult and I found memory leaks to be common...furthermore, it is AFAIK impossible to get the AI to use this properly, as they will always try to jump these ships and join them in fleets (the AI doesn't "recognize" they can't phase jump)
2. Strikecraft - this is the easiest way to implement such ships, but it has its drawbacks...first, implementing abilities for SC is a little more problematic (though still doable)...probably the biggest issue with this approach is that such ships would be immune to abilities that target frigates but vulnerable to abilities that target SC
3. Mines - I am in the process of trying this out, but since I'm working with a mod that removes mines completely anyway the nice thing about this approach is that (unlike the frigate approach) limiting the number per gravity well is very easy...additionally, these ships are treated different from frigates and SC as far as ability targetting is concerned...the biggest problem with this approach is that you have very little control over these ships, and everything (such as "firing" weapons) has to be done through abilities...

I see how they can be useful, and thanks for explaining how it would be possible to implement these kind of gravity well- bound ships into the game.

However, it would probably still require a lot of playtesting on how many of these hybrid ships should be allowed in a single gravity well at once. Remember that a defending player could combine a maxed out number of hybrid ships, turrets (since you wanted the new ships not to consume any tactical slots) and a starbase (being TEC Loyalist possibly even two starbases). Once the defending player moves in his own fleet any attacker will most likely be completely devastated by such a defense force, unless they have an absolutely overwhelming number of ships...

Fantastic idea.  Super +10.  Or make planetary anti-capital ship weapons (like in Stargate) that only purge type vessels are safe from and can destroy!

They are called turrets... Give the TEC a long range missile turret.

I don't see how this could seriously harm the def fence dynamic. You make them weaker in both weapons and armor than the fixed defenses, and limit the number you can build (like space mines but also using tac points) so you don't have another corvette spam problem. It would certainly help with the "pirates attacked a planet really far from the front lines, and though fixed defenses are protecting facilities and the planet, nothing can stop those bastards killing my trade ships at the edge of the grav well" problem (and dont say strike craft, because pirate cutthroats eat them)

Im also a fan of the planetary weapon idea that only works on cap ships. If fact it would be great if they specificaly did extra damage to titans, so you would have to destroy infrastructure or your titan would be in danger being too close to the planet (maybe have it stop firing when pop gets under 10 for this planets held by a starbase....or dont)

It's been my experience that trade ships in a grav. well tend to follow a fairly predictable course.  Putting one or two turrets on that path typically does the trick for me.  Whatever isn't mowed down by the starbase and other static defenses could most likely be dealt with by a handful of standard ships, too.

I'm all for anything that gives siege frigates some reason to exist, be it planet-to-cap missiles or... whatever but I'm not sure I understand what gap the mobile defenses are meant to fill.  If they're going to cost tactical slots but be weaker than turrets, then why not just place more turrets in your blind spots?  Or mines.  Or hangars.   

How about an orbital defense platform that tracks a circle on the inside of the gravity well. It would basically be the same as/similar to a turret, but would rotate around the planet at a fixed speed, making it harder to simply attack a planet from an unprotected side.

 I think the defense need a bit more variation atm. This would balance by being different to deal with, in that it is harder to hit, but also harder for it to hit you. 

It also opens some interesting tactics: For instance, putting three of them on rotation, with one part of the obit passing near a repair platform and your main defensive cluster. You could limit the number in orbit and balance their speed and effectiveness of course...

I like this idea a lot!

Im not so sure about the OP's idea though.

Perhaps making the turrets we already have more useful would be an idea rather than making them useless by improvising mobile versions.

Perhaps you could utilise different strategies depending on the race. For example the TEC would use some sort of planet-to-space attack like suggested or perhaps their buildings would all have small arms on them (very weak turrets). The Advent could 'upgrade' their planet with a small asteroid belt to circle the planet which would act like a mine barrier for siege ships. The vasari.... Not too sure on them. Probably something really nasty though.

But anyway I like the suggestion I mentioned.

Perhaps my suggestion would be a bit too meddly though... Liek with the OP I think....

What about the idea of an upgraded hanger that cost more tac slots, would field the same combined number of fighters / bombers but would also deploy a set number of "system patrol frigates" that had a high level of damage output but a low armor rating, or the opposite of that, low damage high armor.

I do like the thought of upgrading the hangars. As they stand they are a waste of time and the only time I actually use them as a TEC player is when they have the flak upgrade and im facing someone with a lot of strike craft.

That being said giving them a third 'frigate' option would be madness.

If anything having them cost a bit more yet allowing them to field more strikes would be better. If you really want something to patrol then let them do it. It doesnt make a difference if they patrol or not currently as they attack anything that entres the space anyway.

Would it be possible to due something like this as starbase upgrades?  I'd like to order some baby Orkies that can slow down fleeing enemies.

Distant stars mod has planetary defences Just for the guy who said he wants them so badly

Not just DS.  Quite a few mods I've seen have it.  In one I'm working on for instance, I've added them.

yeah I was about to say this, there is a PD system in Distant starts which uses the planet shield model, which corrdinates fire from the surface and so the PLANET ITSELF has weapons to fire at would be aggressors. I love this, wish they would include it in the main game, allow planets to defend themselves, it makes sense.

Distant stars is the bomb in my opinion, I like it better then 7 deadly sins, which i know is sacrilege on this board. I can't wait for them to fix it for rebellion.

-Æ

Since when have the conventional turrets been useful.......lol

Phase Missile Turret+Disruptive Nanites

They are actually really good early game for protecting factories...sometimes they can be used to protect asteroids from being bombed out as well...

Additionally, they are extremely useful for expanding in the early game when you have to deal with planets that have large militias...

ok maybe 1 races turrets...but wat of the advent and tec?

I think the perfect fix for corvettes early on would have  been to confine them to within a system only and limit their numbers just like mine counts.

The biggest issue I hear on a non-jumping ship is the AI tries to jump them anyway with a fleet and they just park on the gravity well edge?

Meson Bolt is good for focus-fired targets because of the armor debuff.

Put a few upgraded Advent turrets togethers and those things damage output becomes insane. Of course having 5 turrets together mean they cover less of the gravity well, and are still vulnerable to bombers.

I've already stated important uses of turrets that apply to all races...

Pro players use these structures to great effect in the appropriate situations...I would also argue that Vasari have the weakest turrets (though they are by no means weak)...Advent turrets can be massively buffed from the shields (and therefore shield mitigation) from Advent hangars with shield bestowal...TEC turrets have two abilities that are also very useful for dealing damage...

Because of the damage tables, turrets do the same damage to all ship types (including caps), which makes them very good for defending against caps or low level titans...it's really only late game that they become marginalized, mainly because late game bombers are the #1 choice for dealing with entrenched planets...