suggestion: split magic from other level up perks

from Elemental Forums

it always pains me to have to choose between a magic level and a new perk during level up. since this game is about _magic_, wouldn't it be a wise idea to let you choose both a magic level and a perk during level up. perhaps only give the choice between 2 magic levels and 3 perks, or downtone the perks a bit, but it would put a lot more magic for me in the game.

since i've never even gotten a sov above lvl 12 i don't quite see this as ballance affecting, and it gives you a reason to keep your early low lvl heroes around and active since they can still be used end game.

oh, and i second the idea of having a way to remove injuries, either during lvl up or some powerfull spell. you,ve got curse city which can't be undone, celerity destiny's blessing, why no "fix hero?"

 

15,468 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea about splitting magic from perks, or splitting attributes (Strength, Intelligence, etc.) from the real level up choices :)

ATM. I feel magic level ups as being the most powerful, followed by "The path of the Warrior", but second one is only powerfull with the right item drops and most level up perks are really useless when you get right down to details.

I cannot see why you have a problem choosing between magic and perks, I usually feel Im left between Zero and Two proper choices and Three to Five perks that are waaaay rubbish compared to getting to learn how to cast a fireball, or how to drain the life from my opponent in combat.

I hope they will revisit the leveling system at some point and not count it as a finished chapter :D

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 1
ATM. I feel magic level ups as being the most powerful, followed by "The path of the Warrior", but second one is only powerfull with the right item drops and most level up perks are really useless when you get right down to details.
End of Kongdej's quote

ever noticed that the computer players sometimes have 2 or 3 paths? so warrior, assassin and defender all at ones. and have glyph of life on them by default, even on beginner.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting inphobia, reply 2

Quoting Kongdej, reply 1ATM. I feel magic level ups as being the most powerful, followed by "The path of the Warrior", but second one is only powerfull with the right item drops and most level up perks are really useless when you get right down to details.

ever noticed that the computer players sometimes have 2 or 3 paths? so warrior, assassin and defender all at ones. and have glyph of life on them by default, even on beginner.
End of inphobia's quote
Yes, and some hireable champions, though I was never able to replicate it going all the way up to lvl 12. (at that point my game crashes too much to go forward, is why I am waiting for some stability patches before being able to properly test  the game atm.

that said with path of the warrior I am thinking of the traits it unlocks: Discipline, Double Strike, and 1-2 more.
These traits have NO EQUAL in the assassin tree, since they make you have tons of carry capacity, and deal massive damage.
One of my biggest problems so far is the importance of the Strength attribute for all champions, since most mage champions have 4-7 strength, They cannot wear army and dies pretty quickly, except my sovereign in which can start with both "Brilliant" and "Discipline" in which I think most of my custom sovereigns start with, those 2 are just too good to deny them.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

A big "no thanks" to making them separate. Choosing between magic and might is a great choice shaped by a lot of other factors. I see absolutely no reason to take away that choice just so you can get stuff faster.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 4
A big "no thanks" to making them separate. Choosing between magic and might is a great choice shaped by a lot of other factors. I see absolutely no reason to take away that choice just so you can get stuff faster.
End of Heavenfall's quote

Hm probably right, but I still feel something should be done for sovereigns to make  them feel like Powerfull mages, instead of just "Just another hero / champion / mage thingie"

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I definitely think you should have to make a choice between Magic and Might.

 

Now, Might based classes should have more Might traits to choose from, and Magic based classes should have more Magic traits to choose from (in my opinion). ;)

 

For instance, Path of the Mage should enable practically all available spell picks to be available before any "might" based trait picks appear on the list.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

With all the new cool spells, my biggest worry is that late game my forces that I have protected the whole game will be wiped out by magic. 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 5

oh, and i second the idea of having a way to remove injuries, either during lvl up or some powerfull spell. you,ve got curse city which can't be undone, celerity destiny's blessing, why no "fix hero?"

 
End of Kongdej's quote

 

Yes game is quite light on healing spells, not sure why.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

I have also seen it harder to get certain Spells with 0.86. But this rather seems to be down to Leveling de-facto stopping after Level 10 now and Magic-Picks being random. So as far as I can see the error is with finetuning the system.

Not the system itself (getting spells was ok with prior versions, rougly same system). Thanks to abilities (so presumably go the perks boosting them) going the way of the dodo with next beta and from what I have read in some developer posts that now classes will determine perks much more strongly this is very likely to change with next beta probably out next week. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater... ;)

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

I think splitting the two is a great idea.  I feel when the champion levels up they should automatically get that level spells in the area that they have.  If they have two areas of magic then they have to choose which one to level up. This will do a couple of things. One when you run across a level 1 champion that has fire, you know what your dealing with. Same with other magic.  Split the spells up into more levels making it more fun to level up.  The other thing this will do is put more magic into the game which I believe makes it more interesting.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, I find it kind of strange at the moment, I think spells should be acquired with level*.  Sometime you can get really powerful summons in early levels just from luck.

 

The choice between magic and might should be between spell/magic bonuses versus other attribute bonuses.  Throwing spells into the mix just seems odd.

 

*Spells could be unlocked in other way as well, magic schools being built?

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Mana and magic is just implemented strangely. An early game mage is essentially non-existant, without fire/death you don't have any direct damage tactical spells and even the ones you do possibly have you don;t want to use because it takes away from your global pool and you want that for enchanments.

 

I think there is a core problem with a single mana pool but that not going to change at this point and I think really they would be best served helping early game mages with a 1 point staff equip option on create, upping the chance of finding a ranged staff and robes from early treasure and monsters. An maybe do something like make spell mastery enhance your staff, maybe a perk to add a % to its attack.

 

I am all for distinct class choices but they have to have meaning in the strategic and tactical part of the game and mid to late game it starts working but the early game is really hurting.