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[SotC] 8472 - How to do species 8472

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[SotC] 8472 - How to do species 8472

from Sins Forums

myfist0, upon learning of the variety of species 8472 ships, I hereby declare you must include Species 8472 into your arsenal for your SotC mod.

Things to know:

Species 8472 will not have the same numbers of ships or structures as the Vanilla Sins races. They don't even have the same number of ships as their Armada II Counter parts. They aren't underdeveloped in Armada II; they simply don't have that many various ships. In armada II, they possess about 75% the amount of ships as the other races, and about half the structures.

Species 8472's Starbase will be mobile, on par with the Orkulus, with similar upgrades.

species 8472 builds ships in Vacuum space in 2 ways.

One way is through Embryos. There are two types of Embryos: The passive and active Embryo. They must possess the ability to construct the ship, like the Starbase Constructor in Entrenchment.

The second way is gating in ships that are especially construct (much in the same way a Galaxy class ship is constructed), but this can only be done in fluidic space. This is generally for large ships only; Battle Frigate (capital), Battleship (Capital), Behemoth (Capital). Their three capitals will fill the 5 roles usually filled by vanilla races.

In Armada II, Species 8472 used only biomatter to construct everything. They had no population, crew, capital crew, dilithium, or metal. Armada II isn't canon, so we can just go with Credit, Metal and Crystal.

With these things said:

Capital Ships. Species 8472 has no fighters; end of story. They will be at a severe disadvantage in this respect. But they will possess a variety of abilities that will either target fighters, or nearly nullify fighter damage. With that said, 8472 will have the following niches of Capital ships: Battleship, Colony, Support.

8472 Battleship          

Battleships, Battleship

Telekinetic Strike - Single hit damage
Rapid Regeneration - Increases already fast regeneration
Insanity - Like disorientation, very low AM cost, medium recovery, long duration. Single Target, not channeling.
(Super) Planetary Pulse - Massive Instant Damage to Planets for no AM cost, long cooldown.

8472 Behemoth

Colony, Behemoth

Colonize - Colonizes
Nebula - Generates a Nebula field, preventing jumps, quickly destroying small objects (strikecraft, bombers).
Rift - Allows the Behemoth Initiate a phase jump from any location.
(Super) Nebula Reaction - If the Behemoth has enough power left, or another Behemoth is present, it may fire a pulse into a Nebula field to deal massive damage to all enemy ships in the field.

8472 Battle Frigate

Utility, Battle Frigate

Concentrate - Better focuses weapon fire on target, at least doubling damage upon target. Channeling.
Planet Concentration - Planet Bombardment damage is multiplied similar to Concetrate.
Rapidity - Syncs the Frigate with allied ships, significantly reducing phase jump time within a field.
Regenerate - Immediately places Shield and Hull back to 100% but costs 300 AM.

 

Smaller Vessels: Species 8472 doesn't do very well to distinguish between Frigate and Cruiser. Instead, they have ships which can be build in vacuum space from Embryos, and are very small. These are all built from Active Embryos.

8472 Scout

Scout, Scout

Detect Cloak - This vessel can make invulnurable targets vulnurable, and detect mines for targetting.
Telepathic Link - Replicate TEC scout ability.

8472 Destroyer

Long Range Frigate, Destroyer

Read Computer - The Telepath aboard the Destroyer telepathically reads the enemy computer in range. You immediately detect which planets they own.

8472 Cruiser

Heavy Cruiser, Cruiser

Psionic Disruption - Disables and makes invulnurable one target. Nonchanneling, Duration = Cooldown 20=20, 30 AM?

8472 Launcher

Anti-Module, Launcher

Can target enemy ships as well.

8472 Collector

Support and Anti-Module, Collector

This ship has not direct firepower, and mainly is used for boosting resource income. It does have military purposes, though.

Mining Beam: Target any Planet or minable asteroid to gain an instant single bonus of Crystal and Metal.

Extraction Beam: Deals moderate damage over time and provides credit and metal upon completion.

 

These are produces from Passive Embryos.

8472 Transmuter

Support Cruiser, Transmuter

This ship has no direct firepower, and mainly is used for boosting abilities and most commonly assists the Collector. Ths ships naturally repairs itself faster than anything else known to exist, and should have an extraordinary Antimatter Regeneration rate, aswell.

Assistance: Reduce Ability cooldown and antimatter cost. Single Target, nonchannel. High duration, low cooldown.

Refuel: Consuming 100 Antimatter, this ship provides 100 antimatter to a target. Medium cooldown.

8472 Gate

Capital Ship factor, Fluidic Gate

This should have an inaccessable stable build from constructors, but therwise also be buildable from passive embyros.
They port in Battleships, Behemoths, and Battle Frigates.

 

And these three beauties are also built from passive embryos.

8472 Module

This is the most basic research station, and Likely best used as the Civilian Structure.

8472 Module

This is the structure used in Armada II to upgrade the Behemoth, but it can be used for something else.

8472 Module

This is the structure used to upgrade ship systems, ie: combat, hull/shield, sensors. This would pull off being the Military Lab.

 

See the loose ends here: http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/ships-species8472.html

Things like the Defender can be the construction ship.

Sentinels would take up being Turrets. Please don't forget that they are very powerful turrets relative to the other turrets in Armada. One Sentinel takes out the Federation Sovereign class Battleship easily.

They also have mines. A glance of active and passive embryo are provided within.

 

modding
51,965 views 61 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 25
Try here http://sfc.battleclinic.com.
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

I'm on it. tanx again  |-)

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 19
FFS not again. 

Are you looking to close another thread?

Please no one respond to this.
End of myfist0's quote

First off, no, I'm not. However, since you evidently were unaware of this, I'll note that I actually "reported" the thread, and said "no further discussion value here. Please lock."

Secondly, I'm not trying to start some kind of argument- I'm pointing out that any information regarding '8472's motives and/or activities is, well, extremely suspect if it comes from some of the games. It's also not my fault regarding that. Blame "It's not Star Trek till I say it is-Rodenberry" if you want to complain.

Thirdly, I mentioned that "for fun". As in, I'm not being particularly serious about that fact- merely pointing it out in a "eh, this is how it is, kinda odd, no?" way. Oh, yeah, and the whole "plz make sure you refer to all of ST canon/lore" comment by purdyaw- I know quite well what is and is not ST canon, and so can indeed properly ensure that I reference the correct information.

FINALLY, my post was more about the fact that the Federation and S8472 aren't allies, as such, but at the very least they aren't trying to wipe each other out and seem to be moderately capable of coexistence of some sort- at the very least, coexisting by completely ignoring each other.

Oh, yes, and the textual errors being fixed is good. I'm being nitpickey on that note because misspellings and grammatical errors detract (quite seriously IMO) from the "polish level" of a finished/in-progress 'product', if you will.

Quoting Thoumsin, reply 20
About voyager"s attack, it have happen because Borg have lie... Specie 8472 was only protecting itself...
End of Thoumsin's quote

I'm not going to dispute the dishonesty of the Borg- but the fact that S8472 established a base that was designed to train 8472 personnel to infiltrate Starfleet Command of all places, should indicate that 8472 was interested in more than just self-defense. At least in my mind, anyways.

Quoting Thoumsin, reply 20
As for relation between Federation and 8472 "in the flesh", best to see the episode that read some wiki... pretty sure that relation between Chakotay and Valerie ( 8472 ) will have become more that diplomatic relations if time was given... don't they exchange a kiss at the end of the episode ?
End of Thoumsin's quote

They do exchange a kiss, IIRC from reading the wiki page. However, given the fact that there's some kind of weird injection thing that the '8472 have to use to stay human- and they're totally bio-incompatible (if not communication incapable!) in the natural 8472 form. I don't think it's possible, just looking at the sheer biological issues (in-universe), for them to become more than a diplomatic team.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

XSI Render
Re-UVed to Single 512x512 Texture

Looks like this needs optimizing. There are a lot of unseen polys.

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Federation 8472 relations following "In The Flesh" were 0 at worst. But it was considered by the writers to be diplomatic talks and the start of peace, which is a likely +1. The fact that Species 8472 later coordinates attacks with the Federation and Dominion against the Borg in the Gamma Quadrant can only point to improved relations. In the grand scheme of this Mod, I'd say that point to +2. I forget which episode, because I've literally watched thousands, but they were definitely coordinating to strike the Borg in the Gamma quadrant.

 

Also, what is this "super battleship"? There is already a model in Armada II for a Titan. It's more gross, and much bigger than a Mother. Do you plan to take away starbase status from the "mother"? Do you plan to take away capital status of the regular Battleship, when it's capable of destroying borg cubes, sovereigns, and D'deridex class Romulan Warbirds (their biggest ever)? Do you plan this as some sort of compliment to give an unnecessary amount of capitals to the 8472? They don't really need 4 or 5 capitals. One class is meant solely for Carrier status, which 8472 will never have, and the other is utility, which you can find all throughout 8472 already.

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Take it easy dude. It is the name of the model in the credit readme.

 

Title		: standard bioship
title           : super battleship
Filename	: sp8472a.zip
Version		: 1.0
Date		: 10/20/2000
Author		: Rick Knox a.k.a pneumonic81
kitbasher       : darkdrone
Email		: rick@apocentertainment.com
URL		: http://www.apocentertainment.com
Credits		: model design rick knox
                  textures: conglomerate textures form activision and interpl

Thanks to	: The SFC community
Build time	: 1 days
 
Find us some models we can actually convert and get permissions.  O:)


 

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting purdyaw, reply 29
The fact that Species 8472 later coordinates attacks with the Federation and Dominion against the Borg in the Gamma Quadrant can only point to improved relations.
End of purdyaw's quote

........Since when did the Federation and Dominion ally against the Borg? I mean, the alliance would make a degree of sense (Borg>Dominion on the scale of evil alien empires)- but ST:VOY never dealt with such things, AFAIK, and ST:DS9 ended with the Dominion surrender and withdrawal (but with the caveat that the Dominion attempt another invasion in the future).

ST:ENT took place during the pre-Federation era (and was also an absolute travesty), so no series has covered this topic- while there also hasn't been a movie which covered it (the most 'recent' timeline-wise movie was ST:Nemesis IIRC, which didn't mention squat about the Borg- and was also constructed out of 99% MacGuffinite and Plot-Devicium).

Quoting purdyaw, reply 29
I forget which episode, because I've literally watched thousands, but they were definitely coordinating to strike the Borg in the Gamma quadrant. 
End of purdyaw's quote

There are only 727 episodes of Star Trek. IIRC, there's about a dozen movies. While this is a point of semantics, it's also somewhat a point of humor.

Because you haven't seen thousands of episodes- you've probably just seen all 727, just multiple times- which easily works out to "I've seen thousands of Star Trek television showings" (can't think of a better term off-hand).

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

So basically now you're just posting to make me look at words.

I am in the process of getting a way to convert SOD to a workable model file type.

Here is the link to the 7 day anonymous Gamefront upload: http://www.gamefront.com/files/service/thankyou?id=20870639

They are in OBJ and came exported with some other weird file type alongside.

If these files of 8472 are around perfect or near perfect polycount without collisions and missing parts, please let me know so we can just get it over with and export everything from armada ii. they won't care. The entire legality of Armada II was never fully resolved, anyways... hence no armada iii.

 

PS: you'll need to make your own mine. the SOD mine file crashed Milkshape when I imported.

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting purdyaw, reply 32
They are in OBJ and came exported with some other weird file type alongside.
End of purdyaw's quote

That weird file is the materials import data. It tells the model what materials sets are used and what textures are used for each material and the location on the UV. You can open these with notepad.

Those files do not include the textures. The 1st model "Active.mtl"

newmtl !phong_Tail_!noalpha
illum 2
Kd 0.545098 0.192157 0.517647
Ka 0.181698 0.064052 0.172547
Ks 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
Ke 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
Ns 37.162721
map_Kd ..\textures\RGB\8472_active.tga
 
If you have Armada, you need to open each models .mtl and get each texture sheet. 
There may be multiple textures listed in each .mtl
map_Kd ..\textures\RGB\8472_active.tga
The models are almost useless without them.
 

Quoting purdyaw, reply 32
they won't care. The entire legality of Armada II was never fully resolved, anyways... hence no armada iii
End of purdyaw's quote

I hope you're right. A hell of a lot of work to get a cease and desist order.  :S 

 
 

 

 

 

 

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting purdyaw, reply 32
So basically now you're just posting to make me look at words.
End of purdyaw's quote

No. The first half was an actual legitimate response. The second was more of a satirical, semantic criticism.

Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top

video game doth require reason to make sense, yet cents make no sense at all. Therefore, the response to the top half can be nothing other than, "nu uh," and to the bottom half, I suggest you hit bat.

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

If you get an email, foward it here so I can reply with "ha, ha, ha, ha... ha"
End of quote

:|  WTF?

 

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20872734/8472.zip
End of quote

Booyah  

yet cents make no sense at all
End of quote
|-O
EDIT:Ya the models have overlapping polys and scale very small but easily fixable.
I might need a scale reference for each model like is the battle frigate the size of a sins frigate or fighter etc. Now it is smaller than a TEC fighter.
Should I add an area that gets the team colour applied?
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting purdyaw, reply 36
video game doth require reason to make sense, yet cents make no sense at all. Therefore, the response to the top half can be nothing other than, "nu uh," and to the bottom half, I suggest you hit bat.
End of purdyaw's quote

.................

You know, there's a lot I could say to this, but I'm not going to bother with most of it. That said, I will now address this using a point-by-point system.

1. MODERN ENGLISH. DO YOU SPEAK IT?

2. The initial half of the referred-to post:

Quoting Whiskey144, reply 31
........Since when did the Federation and Dominion ally against the Borg? I mean, the alliance would make a degree of sense (Borg>Dominion on the scale of evil alien empires)- but ST:VOY never dealt with such things, AFAIK, and ST:DS9 ended with the Dominion surrender and withdrawal (but with the caveat that the Dominion attempt another invasion in the future).

ST:ENT took place during the pre-Federation era (and was also an absolute travesty), so no series has covered this topic- while there also hasn't been a movie which covered it (the most 'recent' timeline-wise movie was ST:Nemesis IIRC, which didn't mention squat about the Borg- and was also constructed out of 99% MacGuffinite and Plot-Devicium).
End of Whiskey144's quote

Was made in reference to this:

Quoting purdyaw, reply 29
The fact that Species 8472 later coordinates attacks with the Federation and Dominion against the Borg in the Gamma Quadrant can only point to improved relations.
End of purdyaw's quote

Because in ST television and movies, there has not, to my recollection, been made a reference which would indicate any such thing. DS9, most of which I have seen, ended with a Dominion truce- but also a promise that the Dominion *would* attempt to invade *again*. AFAIK, there's no evidence in the TV shows/movies that confirms what you're putting forth- and, while there's not anything that directly contradicts it, there's enough that we can infer that such an event hasn't happened in ST continuity (which is a much better word than canon, particularly in this case).

In a nutshell, I'm trying to present a well-reasoned, logical argument for why S8472 wouldn't have a diplomatic relationship beyond what has already been shown- which is more-or-less a heavily neutral, slightly distrustful arrangement.

3. The second half:

Quoting Whiskey144, reply 31
There are only 727 episodes of Star Trek. IIRC, there's about a dozen movies. While this is a point of semantics, it's also somewhat a point of humor.

Because you haven't seen thousands of episodes- you've probably just seen all 727, just multiple times- which easily works out to "I've seen thousands of Star Trek television showings" (can't think of a better term off-hand).
End of Whiskey144's quote

Is a satirical response to the first half of this:

Quoting purdyaw, reply 29
I forget which episode, because I've literally watched thousands, but they were definitely coordinating to strike the Borg in the Gamma quadrant.
End of purdyaw's quote

It's not supposed to be taken seriously, merely a semantically-derived satire on the fact that "watching thousands of episodes" generally means you've seen a stupidly large amount of reruns. That's it.

4. Clarify the following statement:

Quoting purdyaw, reply 36
and to the bottom half, I suggest you hit bat.
End of purdyaw's quote

Because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top

1st ship tested in-game  :P

 

 

 

Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 39
1st ship tested in-game 
End of myfist0's quote

Wow. nice looking.

Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top

lol at Whiskey. Anyways, very nice import. What is the polycount comparison? I didn't even bother to look and I've forgotten sins.

Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 33
There may be multiple textures listed in each

mtlmap_Kd ..\textures\RGB\8472_active.tga

End of myfist0's quote

Well, in the .mtl, the separator for each texture group is "newmtl "+"name"...

by example, below, you have 10 texture map but only 2 UV group... one for body and one for weapons... more info about .obj format  ( http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/obj/ )and .mtl format ( http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/mtl/ )... by the way, the true original .mod format is only the binary format from .obj ...

newmtl my_mt_body
Ka 0.0435 0.0435 0.0435
Kd 0.1086 0.1086 0.1086
Ks 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
Tf 0.9885 0.9885 0.9885
illum 6
d -halo 0.6600
Ns 10.0000
sharpness 60
Ni 1.19713
map_Ka 8472-body-color.tga
map_Kd 8472-body-diffuse.tga
map_Ks 8472-body-specular.tga
map_d 8472-body-alpha.tga
map_bump 8472-body-bump.tga
newmtl my_mt_weapons
Ka 0.0435 0.0435 0.0435
Kd 0.1086 0.1086 0.1086
Ks 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
Tf 0.9885 0.9885 0.9885
illum 6
d -halo 0.6600
Ns 10.0000
sharpness 60
Ni 1.19713
map_Ka 8472-weapons-color.tga
map_Kd 8472-weapons-diffuse.tga
map_Ks 8472-weapons-specular.tga
map_d 8472-weapons-alpha.tga
map_bump 8472-weapos-bump.tga

 

Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks Thoumsin

Thanks Z

Poly count is very low. I check next time scene is open. Compared to what?
You never answered my questions. I made this about the size of the Advent Light frigate, but I have no clue. I can't even tell which end is fore and aft. In those images I have P001-Weapon-0 pointing left and Exhaust is right.

Do these ships actually use exhaust? Or just a glow effect maybe. I will have to custom make that.

Still working on the texture layout. I might give the whole ship more of a glow effect and add more light to the inside of those claw things. the ends of those spike things I gave the team colour, its green team now.

Edit: Added lighting to the hull

 

Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top

hahaha, You don't know which is fore or aft. I'm sorry, I forgot you'd probably have no idea. I was hoping http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/ships-species8472.html would make it obvious which way is forward. If now, I can give further info. (it's the green side)

The Battle Frigate is pretty much the same size as a Battleship. It should be about the size of a Revelation class Battlecruiser. If there is any doubt, look here:

sure, the shot is close up on the 8472 battleship, but Cubes are going to just be oversized overpowered capitals expending greater resource and crew count, right? The Battle Frigate and Battleship are a little be bigger than a Sovereign, maybe slightly more than a Galaxy, too. That should put it on the scale of SoaSe capitals.

They aren't huge, but the Battleship and Battle Frigate certainly dwarf something like the Interpid class (Voyager).

There is no exhaust or glow effects at all. Many vessels have a breathing motion. All the combat ships (scout, destroyer, cruiser, cruiserlauncher, battle frigate, battleship, behemoth) make no motion. They simply move through space... or maybe they move space around them ;)

Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top

the image from that link you supplied clearly shows a lighting glow and they even have a texture for it

to get sins to show the ship like this in-game I have to add a greyscale to the -da green channel or the ship is completely dark unless a light source is directed at it

This image is 1st attemp with a dark greyscale light map

 

this image I lighted the greyscale, very small change but if there was none all you would see is the green dot on the front and the engine exhaust flame.

 

Once I find out how these show good in sins I will have a benchmark for all the ships

Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 45
to get sins to show the ship like this in-game I have to add a greyscale to the -da green channel or the ship is completely dark unless a light source is directed at it
End of myfist0's quote

I prefer to setup the green channel with mostly dark and only lighting for those things that should be lit.

I then mainly play with the show ship mesh highlight filter on and adjust the minShadow and maxShadow to compensate for the lighting I want to see in game. 

You might also test with various skyboxes which really show the red(specular) and blue(reflective) channels. Too light of a specular with the red skybox produces pretty bad results usually.

 

Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top

I think it looks ok. I usually try for no skybox where the ship would be the darkest then look at the others. I did give it a slight reflective which I might tone down. The exhaust point is removed.

Thanks for reminding me about the min max shadow. Now it is a TEC scout that uses the S8472-Frigate_Battle.mesh

Z, if you would like to check the model I will put the .XSI in the ...\Models\S8472\S8472-Frigate_Battle\Model folder and Textures in ...\Models\S8472\S8472-Frigate_Battle\Textures.

 

 

Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top

Remember, the Battle Frigate is the same size as the Battleship. Try not to make it on the same level as a light or long range frigate just because it says "frigate"

Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top

Remember that Species 8472 ships have nothing of trails when they move.

Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting purdyaw, reply 49
Remember that Species 8472 ships have nothing of trails when they move.
End of purdyaw's quote

Quoting myfist0, reply 47
The exhaust point is removed.
End of myfist0's quote

I figured that would be enough but I have not updated the mesh in-game but the model no longer has a Exhaust hard point so no trail and no engine flame.

 

Quoting purdyaw, reply 48
Remember, the Battle Frigate is the same size as the Battleship. Try not to make it on the same level as a light or long range frigate just because it says "frigate"
End of purdyaw's quote

Scale is an easy fix.

Try to let me know about scale with existing Sins ships as a benchmark. I do not have ST models in yet to do a scale compare so I will make it about the size or the KOL then. Can easily be tweaked any time.