Replayability in World of Magic

As we're in beta mode for the 1.3 release of the game I've been focussing a bit on what the issues are for me with WoM. Each version that comes out is certainly an improvement on the one before and while there are beta bugs that hinder the enjoyment I have to ask the big important question:

When WoM is done, what will keep you coming back to play the game? And just as importantly, what factors will stop you from playing the game long-term?

I can appreciate the effort that has gone into building the game but I'm finding that the game itself plays very much the same each time - so for me it has very limited replayability. But what is it specifically that is causing that feeling.

Lack of racial/faction diversity and a boring world are the big culprits for me in terms of it being fun to play the first time around but then just more of the same every time after that. The first time you play it is fun and interesting because you have a sense of discovery. The second time around you don't have this same feeling.

If I'm playing as race X and I find that my neighbour is race Y, there should be specific issues and/or opportunities that allow me to shape the way I play. In Age of Wonders as an example, if you were playing as the Elves and you found your neighbour was Orcs - you knew you needed to focus on defences and getting a strong military. If your neighbour was Archons you could afford to develop production within your cities because you were likely to end up as allies.

Similarly, the world itself should offer different issues and/or opportunities based on the resources that are out there. This is not to say there needs to be more of them, but the impact of resources needs to matter more strategically - especially magic shards.

Of secondary importance behind these two factors are the research system - pretty much just follow the same research path each and every game because the world doesn't offer or demand anything different.

Behind research as an issue for replayability for me are city spam, studies as the most important building, tactical battles and the same boring quests - but if the other three were fixed these wouldn't be deal-breaker and WoM would be a game I would keep coming back to play.

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Reply #1 Top

Boring world, without a doubt, is the largest factor for me. Every game is the same, there is no randomness to speak of - if you played two games, you can play 300 more and still not experience much new. Fuck, there should be 50 different scenarios that completely re-shape the world. A necromancer spawns, taking over factions and killing everyone, raising them as dead. No, it's not a necromancer, it's goblins that raze every city they capture and destroy every farm they get their hands on. Nope, those goblins got killed in the early game by a falling meteor that contained a dying god. He's magical as hell and you'll need every shard to defeat him. Or not, because he sank under the oceans when a city rose from the depths carrying lizardmen with odd voices. Nothing happens in E: wom. There are the factions, and quest huts and notable locations. Adventurers and monsters walk around but they don't do SHIT. An adventurer explores a tomb and unleashes horrors on the world? +1 world danger, maybe maybe you'll see some slightly stronger monsters down the line. Hell no. Spawn a dragon and destroy a third of the map.

The combat system is also extremely flat. I think there's a lot of possibilities within the system, but they largely go unused because in E:wom, almost every trained unit is a peasant with a weapon and armor. There are no traits, no special abilities, no diversity. You have three main stats and two less important ones, and you should always go UP UP UP in those three. Where are the flying units? The quick-strike units? The units that knock you down sometimes? The units that tear up your armor? The units that regenerate health and must be focused down? The units that lose health on their own and must strive to end each game before they die? They don't exist because every unit is a peasant. And there's no flanking, and no morale, and no line of sight, and no height maps, no sieges. And the AI...  *shiver*.

Faction diversity is also a big one. To me, it's not really a matter of having different graphics for every race - that would be cool, but it wouldn't give anything to the gameplay. What really bothers me is the utter weakness of every bonus racial in the game. Some faction starts with 10 materials? And another gains 5% health? And another starts with one particular technology already researched? None of that is going to shape how a player develops a faction. It's edge smearing, not even close to touching the core of faction gameplay.

Mods help in all these areas, I believe. But the core game is... bland.. because of these things.

Reply #2 Top

I stopped playing WoM a while ago, and boring combat is the main reason why. I can live with a lot of other stuff, but with so few units having skills, no traits, very easy to beat AI, and no terrain modifiers/obstacles, tactical combat is pretty much exactly the same every fight. City sieges in AoW 2 were the highlight of the entire game, and without walls, trees, bulidings, and other obstacles there's just no way to get that out of WoM.

FE is going to fix at least some of that list so I'm hopeful it'll be more interesting then WoM is. If nothing else unit traits will spice things up and make the unit designer useful, which its really not right now.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 1
Boring world, without a doubt, is the largest factor for me. Every game is the same, there is no randomness to speak of - if you played two games, you can play 300 more and still not experience much new. Fuck, there should be 50 different scenarios that completely re-shape the world. A necromancer spawns, taking over factions and killing everyone, raising them as dead. No, it's not a necromancer, it's goblins that raze every city they capture and destroy every farm they get their hands on. Nope, those goblins got killed in the early game by a falling meteor that contained a dying god. He's magical as hell and you'll need every shard to defeat him. Or not, because he sank under the oceans when a city rose from the depths carrying lizardmen with odd voices. Nothing happens in E: wom. There are the factions, and quest huts and notable locations. Adventurers and monsters walk around but they don't do SHIT. An adventurer explores a tomb and unleashes horrors on the world? +1 world danger, maybe maybe you'll see some slightly stronger monsters down the line. Hell no. Spawn a dragon and destroy a third of the map.
End of Heavenfall's quote

 

They should have hired YOU...   :thumbsup:   good stuff.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting charon2112, reply 3
They should have hired YOU...     good stuff.
End of charon2112's quote

They should still hire Heavenfall.

Reply #5 Top

I'm one of those people that wouldn't enjoy creating stuff if I was paid to do it. I started my own company when I was young and worked hard until I could employ people to work hard for me. And now I don't work at all. I'm here because it's fun to me, not because it's money to me.

Besides, I am not in any way qualified, I'm neither an artist (stick figures ftw) nor a c++ programmer (php only). Speaking of stick figures, I actually had an idea to introduce the Card Men from Alice in Wonderland to the ExpandedFactions mod. It may still happen, actually.

Reply #6 Top

I think the biggest thing for me is the blandness (lack of variation) in the world.  Right now there are only a handfull of maps- I haven't played enough games to have them memorized but random map generation would help with making exloring interesting again.  The random events and special locations should help with this.  The wandering npcs dont seem to do much of anything unless confronted or when they decide to raid your town.  Some kind of hierarchy or something so they interact with other things on the map would help, such as can raid/destroy map features, or fight eachother if they dont get allong.

Some kind of event/location procedural generation wouldnt be remiss either (ie creating a goodie hut following rules or a formula and getting the specifics elements of it chosen from tables for each part).  A simple example would be terrain(swamp,hills)-tile(goodie hut graphic)-reward(treasure, combat, lore,etc).  Could have it do a roll when placing goodie huts to determine first if it would pull from a pre-gen list (how they are now), or create a random one.

I also agree on the faction/race differences not doing as much as they could to change play style (or feel/seem different at least).  I imagine its a difficult balance between making them different and not forceing a given style on you.  Not really sure how to spice it up though.  Perhaps some kind of lore/history tie in with your structures/build style or the improvement tree (perhaps additional improvement levels to prefered buildings, unique units, or better improvement performance (or non related bonus) from prefered structures).  Even something like HF did with the expanded factions (primarily the unique structure tiles to a faction for base buildings) help. Hopefully the custom faction tech tree thing will be implemented differently (as it seems like it might with the change to how techs look to work) so a full tech tree doesnt have to be copied/created as it does currently with the elves. Or at least a frame reference tree/ style to choose from (ie kingdom tarth, empire trog, etc) to emulate off of with hooks or something so you could just substitute/ change the required entries without having to copy stuff that wouldn't be different.  Heavenfall would be able to provide better input on that.

The tactical combat is pretty crap though (functional but pretty bare bones).  I usually just sim it.  Its about as tactical as checkers (or a bit better)  Some obstructions, or value to terrain tiles in the tac combat would help probably even more than improvements to the AI other than to recognize the value of positioning on terrain. 

Disgaea had lots of variation in strike zones and attacks that could change the position of targets and attacker alike.  Some of that would help or putting some value in unit facing (ie hitting from the back or sides of a unit ) or position in relation to other units (adjacent- which could be handled by aura type abilities).  Say for example the unit gets a bonus to defense and vs. knockdown when flanked by friendly units, and a bonus vs. knockback when a friendly unit is behind them.  It would probably work best to tie these into abilities that could be put onto a unit at creation (or as a bonus from equipment).  There could be a compatible training bonus where the bonus applies when adjacent friendly units are fielding the same piece of equipment or ability.

The overkill ability mentioned in the dev journal sounds like it would help some with this issue or at least is kind of in the same vein.  Having different abilities or features available to the units would help to differentiate them from eachother, and customization to have more purpose.- you could even work it similar to gal civ2 where the armor and weapons would work like the bling pieces that are just for show (or set what abilities are available to the unit based on the type/class of the equipment added), and abilities are what make the larger impact in unit performance.  For example the weapon could determine the type of damage done, and armor the type resisted.  Magical parts could add bonuses or additional types and/or abilities. Have the abilities make the stat alterations to the unit and effect training time, and cost (the same way armor and such do now).  Then new abilities or unit features can be added/implemented more easily than thrue the creation of new equipment.

Lets say for example that a dagger and short sword both allow slashing type damage. So you could equip your peasent with either and have them do slashing damage.  Then you could choose how much training they will have with that weapon class (slash), +0, +1, etc. with each costing more resources than the last to have trained into them. Alternatively it could be generic ranks in weapon proficency.  It could keep equipment from becoming obsolete.  Lets say that the difference between the two items is either anouther ability (like better crit damage, better crit%, +1 max damage, etc) or +1 rank in slashing applied by the short sword. Im sure there are a few things Im not thinking of that would be problems with this type of system (such as making weapons/armor changes a bit less impactfull or direct in how they work), but maybee the idea will help. 

Reply #7 Top


When WoM is done, what will keep you coming back to play the game? And just as importantly, what factors will stop you from playing the game long-term?
End of quote

When FE beta comes I will probably not ever start WoM again.

Main reasons for me: Boring world and basicly no Tactical battles (both are probably fixed in FE).

Reply #8 Top

The first and most obvious thing I would do to improve replayability would be to balance the hero focused, military focused, monster focused and magic focused approaches until they're all equally viable and fun. But some people would just call that making the game better.

Reply #9 Top

Let's just call EWOM a failed beta. Scrap further work on it. Allocate those resources towards fixing memory issues and creating mod tools for the community in time for the Fallen Enchantress release.

Thanks in advance!

Reply #10 Top

I also haven't played the game in a while. I come occasionally to see if things are different, but when I see threads like this one, I feel like they keep missing the mark. Like a lot of other people, I'm just waiting for word on Fallen Enchantress which should prove a bit better. That's my hope anyway.

Speaking of which, is there any word on when that expansion is coming? I haven't been on the forums in a while, so I haven't read anything about it. Is it this year? 2012? Any idea when the beta starts?

Reply #11 Top

The beta apparently will start in july, unless they decide to start it later.

Reply #12 Top

Lower your expectations... think August or September.