Still playing?

I've decided to sit out until the next patch fixes some of the outstanding issues, but there are still plenty of people online and you can definitely find games.

You more or less hit the nail on the head with the problems of 1.19.

I agree with Darvin. Plus, I rarely even play online anyway. SINS is too good of a game to uninstall, though.

I still play.  The basic soundness and flexibility of the interface make the game enjoyable, even if Ironclad have consistently failed to to produce gameplay that lives up to the promise.

I can understand players who have quit 1.19 though.  Having to face constant Skirantra-Kanrak rushes isn't fun. 

Also the developers seem to have abandoned the second expansion, which was rushed to release with most of its features broken.  The relationship victory, the relationship AI and the pirates are crass, I could make a better mod on my own in a fortnight.  What happened to the other fifty weeks of development?  Also the developers have disappeared from the forums, with perhaps a couple of posts since the release of Trinity nearly four months ago.

The current version is mostly unbugged, there is a trade problem with the starbases and an extractor problem with normal starts.  Apart from that the only major work would be to unite the lobbies and replace the useless subforums with version-dedicated ones.  Though the gameplay issues are severe, the fixes are just a matter of text edits- and putting the effort in, which is something that we can't expect from Ironclad.  Some issues have existed almost since release, others have cropped up as parts of the game have undergone major revision while others which were part of the same original design have remained unchanged.  No RTS could survive this sort of patch process.

One patch a week would be counterproductive but one patch a month could help considerably, and is the sort of release rate a community patch could achieve.  There seems to be the expectation that Ironclad will not leave the game in its current state, but I don't know where this is from, there seems to be no kind of further commitment to the game and we have been told that there is no work ongoing.  A patch might nevertheless appear, but I could make a patch composed entirely of text edits in a day.  It isn't hard.

We should make a community patch anyway, regardless of any jam tomorrow patch release.  It might even help development.

Most of the humans v. humans action is on Diplomacy now and there are normally a couple 4v4s and 5v5s each night.  Most of the games on vanilla and Entrenchment are new players comp stomping.

DesConnor's portrayal of the situation is accurate: the developers have disappeared from the forum.  However, they were never very active here to begin with.  They are supposedly now developing a land-based game.  I wouldn't count on seeing any further improvements or changes to Sins anytime soon.

I haven't been able to play SOASE recently, though it's due to being too busy than the gameplay issues. Even with the current balance problems, playing online is still very fun. I just wish the problems would be fixed.

I love playing Diplomacy. In fact me and my friends are going to be holding a tourdment next week. 5 player campaing. I love the infinite pirate ability. I also love the planet assisnation ability. Thou the best is offering missions to other players.

Along with the Starbases it make my military activity nearly invinsible.  I think that the expasnsions have made the game so much better that I just can't believe how great it is. So I disagree with all your opions of this wonderfull replayable game. 

That's exactly what I thought as well, when I uninstalled and quit playing a while back.  Ironically, I bought Diplomacy when it came out, not because I wanted Diplomacy (nothing about it appealed to me), but rather I wanted support.  In other words, I looked at it as me buying another year or so worth of support from the devs, but in hindsight it was probably wishful thinking.

You took the words right out of my mouth again.

I agree 100%.  Unfortunately, I guess there is no support in the community for a community patch.

That's exactly what I thought as well, when I uninstalled and quit playing a while back.  Ironically, I bought Diplomacy when it came out, not because I wanted Diplomacy (nothing about it appealed to me), but rather I wanted support.  In other words, I looked at it as me buying another year or so worth of support from the devs, but in hindsight it was probably wishful thinking.

You took the words right out of my mouth again.

I agree 100%.  Unfortunately, I guess there is no support in the community for a community patch.

That's exactly what I thought as well, when I uninstalled and quit playing a while back.  Ironically, I bought Diplomacy when it came out, not because I wanted Diplomacy (nothing about it appealed to me), but rather I wanted support.  In other words, I looked at it as me buying another year or so worth of support from the devs, but in hindsight it was probably wishful thinking.

You took the words right out of my mouth again.

I agree 100%.  Unfortunately, I guess there is no support in the community for a community patch.

That's exactly what I thought as well, when I uninstalled and quit playing a while back.  Ironically, I bought Diplomacy when it came out, not because I wanted Diplomacy (nothing about it appealed to me), but rather I wanted support.  In other words, I looked at it as me buying another year or so worth of support from the devs, but in hindsight it was probably wishful thinking.

You took the words right out of my mouth again.

I agree 100%.  Unfortunately, I guess there is no support in the community for a community patch.

I suspect there will be at least one more patch, if only to tie up the Skirantra issue.  Personally, I think if they want to just leave the game with few changes, they should keep the recent bug fixes and revert game balance back to 1.181 balance.

Lol, quad post? The forums strike again it seems.

Also, who said there is no support for a community patch? Unlike other games it certainly isn't technically hard to do. The main problems would A. deciding who and how balance changes would be made and B. getting everyone in multiplayer to use it. Though I suppose that all relies on getting the community to come together... actually never mind, you're probably right. But I'll certainly support one if we choose to make one.

QFT. I would also support and promote one, but thats not the problem. Its getting the Online crowd to use it and maybe change the rut they love. Random Maps...for example.

I am actually a big fan of the DS mod for balancing and adding to the gameplay. I'm not neccesarily a big fan of EW Fighters however they have been balanced in such a way as to eliminate fighter popping cap ships in one pass, typically.

That is what our LAN crowd for this game (6-15 of us) think in any case.

Biggest problem for us is that we want to create (and have the templates ready to go) for large multistar maps. Problem is, when you zoom out, occupied planets cover the entire screen and don't shrink down behind their parent stars properly.

THAT is what has ruined this game for us unfortunately.

Have poked around the forums for a few years now, haven't found a solution.

would it even be worth trying to get in contact with the developers about this issue?

I've sent out a few pm's over the last 6 months or so but haven't heard anything back.

Also was told about 10 months ago that there would be some sort of 'upgrade' package available for those of us who purchased the micro-expansions but wanted to have a boxed copy of 'trinity' which we technically already 'purchased'. Never heard back. What was once a rocking community / supported development has fallen far short of what I hoped it would be so far.

With DS, all we're missing in my mind is a simple tweak to the display of 'fully zoomed out' star systems and I would be perfectly happy.

My honorverse map would finally be able to be properly viewed.

well the sins product has really been finished for some time now. They canned the third micro expansion and I thought were doing either a real expansion or sins2.

I am ready to lap up whatever comes and am really happy with the product we already have... my only small gripe is that we do not have - in between - captital ships. i.e. non-heroe capital ships. Much like the in ww2 the bismark and hood took the hero roles while the graf spee, scharnhorst and others were still mighty but less heroe.

Yeah,

Just want my 150 or so star system map (with 2-5 bodies in each system, only 15 bodies in the whole MAP would have militia, rest would be empty)

The problem with a community patch is that getting people to d/l and install a patch like that would be like trying to herd cats.  I can't even get people to get the Sins Optimization Mod which is badly needed to reduce late-game lag.  Part of the problem is that Sins is not private-server-based like an FPS where the server admin would decide what mods and patches to run, forcing any one who wanted to play to auto-download them.  I'll be happy if I can get players to start using the Sins Optimization Mod.

Did that " Gamers bill of Rights"    that Stardock touted include anything about being kept in the dark for months at a time?

I mean really whats with the suspense?

Its either

1. working on new title. you'll  love this one!

2. working on a patch. Boy these hotdogs are good!

3. working on sins 2 or expansion. Really it would kill to tell us?

4.helping Stardock finish elemental. Yawn.

5. blair brothers blow all their new cash on strippers. sign me up!

#4 is what they are doing in my opinion.

Multiplayer REALLY needs the Optimization Mod and a player balance mod.  I would be willing to work on them (I already am working on the Optimization project).... but the community needs to help support it.

Maybe start tagging games with SOP to get them to get the optimization and PBM for the player balance mod (once it is made).

Seriously, if the community wants it to change, then THEY have to initiate the change.

I haven't played Sins in months due to the state of balance.  There's only so many times you can play against carrier cap rushes and LRM/bomber spam before you lose interest in multiplayer.  The AI just doesn't put up enough of a fight for single player to be a viable alternative, and the bugs (particularly the AI not bidding on other AIs issue) and poor balance in regards to pirates have been ignored.  All in all, it's up to the community to keep the game alive and interesting at this point as it indeed seems like Ironclad has moved on to other projects.  While I can't entirely blame them, I did except a little more support for Diplomacy considering how light on content it was compared to Entrenchment.

The good news is the community is small, so it shouldn't be a major issue to get most people running a community balance patch.

Well, maybe after Sins is officially done, we might be able to get stardock to support community patches through impulse. I believe they have done it with other games they have published, though we'd have to create some kind of organizational structure deciding what goes into new patches.

The only problem there is that like was said earlier, two or three patches aren't going to fix all the major and minor issues in Sins.  It would likely need a patch every week or two for 3-4 months to get all the units and techs at a generally agreed level of balance.  I suppose the community could beta-test the patches and then once we hit an agreed upon final we could ask Stardock to make it official.  Make it an optional download stressing that it's a community patch, but providing it via Impulse so everyone sees it.

The community has been the "beta testers" for the entire game's life.  (Which is a GOOD thing btw...)

One of the big problems is countering rushes and "easy" multiplayer wins.  I don't remember which patch it was (any pros remember) when the scouts got nerfed.  Raging Amish proved how that could effectivly nutrilize the early lrm rush.  Now the things rushed are captials... which I suppose is a nice break, but at what cost?

The community wants this game to be the best it can, its evident in how many mods and attention people show it.  But it needs to be set up that it can be enjoyable for all. 

I almost want to see a defensive ship/structure that can effectively kill the early game rush.  Because the new folks just get creamed every time.  The best parts of the game are in the middle/end of the techs, and games never seem to get that far for the new guys. 

The balance keeps getting closer, but then something always seems to derail it yet again... oh well, here's hoping it will get one last boost of love from the devs

While I totally agree with you, this right here is main reason why any attempt at this will probably end in failure.  Pulling some numbers out of my ass, I'd estimate about 95% of the Sins community would want to go in this direction; slowing down the game so that spamming ships and rushing is not the best tactic as IMO Sins was not designed with this sort of play in mind.  The problem is that the other 5% are the ones most active in multiplayer and would prefer the game to be even faster paced, just with better balance so one or two units don't dominate.  They're also the ones most likely to be doing most of the mod work.  The obvious issue here is that there's no way the game can be balanced for both groups. and once the balance mod clearly starts leaning one way the other group will lose interest in it and likely refuse to use it.

Unless this situation can be defused right from the start, this seems like something best left to a private mod not a community patch.