Tripple Regulus Insta-Gib?

Oh, for leveling you can use Heaven's Wrath.  YOu get kill credit (and hence XP) for units killed with it.  Only usable every 60 seconds but if placed right it can net you ~300xp which will eventually get you to level 4 (for next rank of snipe).

Even worse.  On some maps the citadels are relatively close to each other.  It only takes 45 level 1 max-range snipes to take down an un-upgraded citadel.  That is 11.25 minutes with 1 Regulus, 5.6 minutes with 2 and 3.75 minutes with 3. The obvious counter to this is to upgrade your citadel but the regen rate isn't fast enough so you are only delaying the inevitable.

Can a regular mixed team of players push and win faster than that?  Regulus can also fight at the front and just snipe the citadel when it's cooled down.  That way he can keep from getting overrun too quickly and also level up a bit.  Just as a test, I did a 16 minute game against a nightmare AI using this strategy.  I will admit, with a single Regalus blowing all his mana on sniping the enemy citadel it takes a while and the AI is able to push pretty effectively.  I don't think I would employ a strategy like this with any less than 3 Reguli.

Hey Micah - we were looking at this back in January but no one has really tried it yet.  I'm thinking that right now the devs have balanced things to the point where stacking will always be less effective than mixed teams, but someone should really practice this and try it out against a good team before release.  I'm going to post a challenge for this.

Does tracking device even work on buildings?..

wow micah if you are right with your calculations that is pretty scary.. maybe the citadel should be spell immune?

You don't need to track it to snipe it.  Can snipe buildings in the fog.

I tested this on several maps against the AI and it appears there are only a couple where the opposing citadel is close enough to snipe from your base.  However, by level 4ish you should have enough mana regen (and Snipe II) to snipe from a little in front.  The trick would be to avoid getting pushed back too far into your base such that you can't snipe.

Sounds like the problem is that, then.

We need to test this out before saying its OP...The Devs however said they've been aware of this potential problem since beta 1 but they said its not actually effective.

Not the problem of being able to snipe down first-level Demigod's at level 1, over and over when they team up.

1) 4 regs can take out DGs like TB quite easily

2) 4 regs = i get +400 hp armor, +600hp favor item, and immediately go for the +hp items like mad.

3) Oak = the anti-reg. 4 regs against me? Fine oak and QoT will make sure they got the absorbtions and invuln to get through as well.

5) HP Potions, almost dead due to snipes? hp pot.

6) Orb of Defiance... see snipes coming, pop the orb, invulnerability.

7) Regs need Line of Sight on the citadel to snipe it.

8) 4 regs = 1000 damage sniping from camp... Thats nothing. 4000 damage is a lot at level 15 but by 15 I have way more hp. Not to mention saving money in that case for a shield of -25% damage. A TB can deal 1000 from one shot, then combo 800 + stun + 2100 damage... thats 3900 damage combo from abilities if mana permits by 15 or 20 depending on build. SOLO. So 4000 damage snipe is nothing. The only difference is that in Prison you can sit back and snipe from the hp regen area nonestop every 15 seconds or so.

9) If you are sniping at low levels, you are not doing 4000 damage. Also you are not leveling much. A well rounded team especially UBs can really destroy you before you get a chance to level high enough.

So yea there are counters. If they are "on ventrillo" well thats sort-of stacking, and theres really no counter to that except another vent team.

Give it a shot. Have two experienced teams of 4v4 regs vs oak + ub + erebus + rook and see who wins... my money on the latter.

Quite a game breaking strat.. Even if GPG make it so that you can't snipe citadel..

Without favour items.. just buy mana pots.. then have 4 regs clustered somewhere near the mid lane which with 1 other DG harrasing to take down 20% health (about 3-500hp will do in the beginning) of any low life enemy DG.

Guaranteed kill + gold everytime snipe cd is up. 2000+ total team gold added every 30s is no joke... In less than 10mins the regs will have a high level item each which will more than make up for their lower level..During cd.. the regs can go up to frontline to gain some xp.

Another strat.. get 4 friends.. each get a cloak of night. move together as 1 grp and blink in together. Pick any stun or slow for your early skill then go rape other DGs. Fun begins from lvl 1. Versus a disorganised pub team they simply have no chance at all. You'll start hearing noob pubs curse and swear and calling StarDock for refunds thereafter.

These strats arent OP, trust me

Try them out yourselves. In theory they are very, but pratically its near impossible to co-ordinate so well with 4-5 players and all snipe the same person at the same time etc.

This build has lots of counters. High HP items, Oak shield, QoT bramble, Erebus mist, lots of hp pots, Sedna fast after each snipe etc. etc.

I beg to differ.. all it takes for this strat is for 5 people who know what they are doing, and then for 1 person to coordinate timing.

Assuming we are aiming torch bearer.. this is what i will type: (after getting his hp to <2000)

TB

3

2

1

Then all click on the poor TB.. How hard is this?

And for my cloak of night strat.. 5 cloaks = 1000aoe dmg = about 50% life of a lvl 1-4 DG.. How hard is it to kill some disorganised pubs who dont't also cluster? And even if they do.. 1000 aoe dmg will take down 50% of the entire enemy team's life straight away... The rest wouldnt be too difficult..

If sniping became a problem all you'd need to do is apply a debuff that reduces snipe damage for as a long as the cooldown is. However, till arranged teams are more common I don't see much need to worry.

I am not prepared to make a statement regarding the current balance of multiple Snipes, but the argument that it is too difficult to pull off is nonsense.  In a random game with random people, then you probably won't be able to do it.  However, in a half decently organized group or clan with VOIP, coordinating Snipes would be fairly easy.

However, in all fairness, a balanced team with at least one support capable Demigod (Heal, Shield, Bramble Shield) and equal coordination would just as easily be able to counter this strategy.  The difference between the Reg team and the varied team is that the varied team would still be able to function normally.

You could make the argument that a coordinated Reg team would beat an uncoordinated varied team, but honestly, any coordinated team is likely to beat any uncoordinated team.

I can't speak to if the numbers all add up to "broken" or not, but I think I can safely assert the preceeding.  The amount of coordination necessary to pull off a Reg multi-Snipe can be easily countered by an equal amount of coordination on the receiving team.

That's just the thing.  Sure, a coordinated Reg Snipe team would be able to take down a team of randoms, but in all honesty, would a coordinated team actually require multi-Snipe to win?  No.  The coordinated team is going to beat the uncoordinated team regardless of if they multi-Snipe, multi-Cloak, or just play normally.

This is a start and I agree with it.

I also think snipe needs to be changed to require some skill to use, but that's perhaps a bit much to ask at this point.

Really just having it be ground targeted and it goes through everything in its path (with slightly reduced damage) would be ideal.

Cloak of night has a 15y range.  If you're that close to use it, then your snipe alpha strike won't be as effective because it does less damage to close enemies.  Against another organized team, seeing a team of so many regulus, they'd probably all just get the +800 health favor item and a +400 health armor at the start, neutering your strat.

And if you just have 1 person up front scouting so you can snipe at max distance for max damage?  That person will probably get swarmed.

This strat has been around for a while, since early beta; it was a problem in then when there were no proper support demigods, but now we have those in abundance as well as a much larger amount of HP+ items it is nowhere near as broken as the theorycrafting would have you believe.

Probably you misunderstood.. the reg snipe and cloak are 2 different strats..

For both strats, it works on the basic behavior that a team will split up to different lanes to maximize gold and xp.

For reg strat.. you don't really need a person to scout coz u can just buy wards to see.. rather the person up front is to harass a DG to get his life to below 2000hp. Coordinated snipe means everyone snipe at the same time.. (means u lose 2000hp from 4 snipes instantly.. no time for heal, invul, potion or watever)

For cloak strat any combination of assasin is possible.. you juz need everyone buy a boots of speed to chase.. 5 people gank on 1 or 2 DGs for FB. Then rinse and repeat..

It also makes Regs a sitting duck.  Literally.  Any decent + max health favor item renders this moot.

You are all missing the point.

Snipe is a somewhat OP'd skill not because it has uber damage or whatever. It is because Regulus is an awesome character by himself, one of the best anti-grunt and anti-tower heroes in the game, he just happens to have an awesome anti-Demigod skill with the Mark, and has one of the highest attainable DPS levels... So that means that he can place himself somewhere on the map, sit there and be effective, and when the time comes use snipe to effectively be effective in a 90yard range... Logistically, this is THE MOST POWERFUL skill in the game right now.

Maybe beating an old drum but this strategy IS popping up in Custom games post release (APr 19 09) I encountered it and if the game could allow me to save replay's you'd see how overly powerful it is. This happend on Prison.

ALSO NOTE: the individuals who did this made sure everyone ELSE was clicked "ready" so they could switch to the 4 man Regulus team and start the match without someone calling foul or leaving the match on it. It is deceptive and IS being used to rack up wins for custom game records.

The 4 man regulus team would engage an enemy at lvl 1, only one ot two of them would draw out a target, tag it a bit to weaken it then all 4 (others from inside the enemy camp) would focus snipe the weakend enemy killing it, wash rinse repeat till they can plant the little visual bug onto people, then they all focus snipe endlessly till the person is dead from inside their base and/or while they (the target) retreat to their healthstone.

The 4 man team would not engage an enemy, when approached they'd always run into their camps towers (favor item + swiftness boost? they run fast as heck!) and any foolish enough to follow is instantly focus sniped and killed.

Furthermore, after gettin about lv 8-10, they would focus snipe all the Towers of Darkness/Light within the enemy base from overry safe distances so they could blow up any defences then move in for the kill. And further to become aggressive they'd begin engaging enemy demigods in packs of two to soften them up while the others from saftey focus snipe a kill.

This is a strategy hitting the game in custom to rack up easy victories for record. My group was a mix of 2 rooks, 1 beast, and myself as QoT and we couldn't phase these guys. They had racked up so many kills on our demigods and blown up half our towers and we couldnt' even touch them. 

And to state the obvious: yes i was spamming my bramble shield every time it came off CD to try and keep people alive, didn't work too well...

I have a screenshot of the scorebord at a point in the match up. Two people dropped from my team (probly left due to the B.S. that was occuring) and then i was dropped from the match due to the network (everyone had ~150 ping so it wasn't latency).

Seeing that there was no previous postings about a 4 regulus setup i figure this would be the best place to suggest Regulus getting a review on balance due to the rather abusive nature of this setup.

EDIT: Just tested it out, and it took my ~ 14.5 minutes to gun down the enemy citadel on Prison using Regulus w/ the Staff of Renewal, although there was some innefficiency there - I spent some time leveling to get the second rank of Snipe, and I died twice (kind of embarrassing - I thought that Rook was my ally.  Oops.  All walking fortresses look the same, or something...).  Also, at the beggining, I had to frequently run back to my crystal to replenish my mana, although after I bought a couple helms, that was no longer an issue.

It's definitely a viable strat, especially with additional Regulus's.