New minor civ = free planet for human

Why would you want to conquer a cash-cow? They can be trade partners so you can go to war against major civs, you can extort tech or money out of them. They are usually more valuable alive than dead. Unless the ai gets tributes out of them first.

I usually try to sell them some of my trade goods for cash. I try to have an invasion fleet ready so I can get to system if one of the AIs decides to declare war on them.
When they appear close to or within enemy territory I invade them asap. Especially when I try to win by culture it is very nice to gain a foothold in
enemy territory.

Leader,

I think this is intentional. Brad mentioned in one of the early strategy articles that Minor Empires were intended for exploitation.

The AI Empires will certainly take advantage of them, too. Not only do Minors only start with 100m and no fleet, they get a free (random) tech as well! The Minor will set its social production to begin producing any associated wonder or trade good, should that tech come with one. The AI's will almost immediately declare war on them and invade in order to grab these. This is how the AI's can end up with advanced techs (and trade goods or wonders) they have not yet acquired the prerequisites for.

Another nice thing about the Minors, is that (if they arrive "in-game" as wandering settlers) they usually land on an uninhabitable system and turn it into a yellow star - their starting planet gets a +PQ bonus to set it at PQ15 or above.

I used to use Minors as trading partners as well, but I found that one of the AI's favorite alliance tactics is to declare war on any Minors it encounters and force you to either break the alliance, or declare alongside them and lose your trade routes. I now just go out and conquer the Minors for the free tech (plus I get a nice new planet as a bonus!).

~SDC~

LDiCesare said:

"Why would you want to conquer a cash-cow? They can be trade partners so you can go to war against major civs, you can extort tech or money out of them. They are usually more valuable alive than dead. Unless the ai gets tributes out of them first."

Yes you can sell them all your trade goods, if they have any money to spend, before you take them over. Good idea.

But they're really better off dead, as quickly as possible. Alive, they will just give techs or money to the AI civs.

And the the side benefit of killing them is that you get a free planet.

Once again, this is such a big advantage for the human player that it's unfair to the AI players.

The AI seems to wipe out the minors given enough time.

I think the one time I was too busy to get the new minor race, an AI took it out in 10-20 turns.

A (basically free) new planet is worth a lot more than a trade route that would take years to develop.

~SDC~

A new minor civ is not an immediate new world for the humans. I've seen the AI *IMMEDIATELY* dispatch an attack AND invasion force to take the new minor.

Personally, I tend to either give them some military to defend themselves (and allow me to gain a new trade partner that I don't have to worry about if someone decides to War on me), or I race the AI to invade them and take the world. It just depends on the particulars of the game.

If you are the only one trying to invade them, I have to wonder what game version you are playing, and what your game map layout and startegy is at the time.

New minor civs popping up in your empire are one of the best events you can possibly encounter next to free Rangers in the early game. Every minor civ can sustain up to 10 trade routes given the proper technology, and if they're all heading towards your planets, that could eventually add up to a couple thousand BC of extra income per turn depending how deep within your empire they reside. That, by the way, is something you can adjust by gifting them a planet in some corner of the map and conquering their home planet then handing them 10 freighters freshly produced from your best planets.

A single PQ 15 planet under your control won't be generating much more than 100 production or research no matter what you do with it. Compare that to the value of trade routes and it's much better to keep minors around if you can keep them under your leash.

This is a bit off topic, but I think the number of techs mid-game minor civs start with, should be randomized up to -let's say- 50% of techs known by the most backward major civ. It seems to "unfair" (and is boring) to be able to start selling all techs from the beginning.
I also liked the suggestion to give them random pop (within some limits) and a small fleet.

Well this is sortof embarrising to say but i just got conquered by a minor civilization, i was weakened by 2 major civilization but the minor civilization ended up conquering my main star-system(homeworld), deathstar ...

Don't feel bad, in the game I'm playing, the I-League has the Drengin down to one planet, and have the Torians asking me for assistance for the war effort. Too bad they are huge trading partners.

~SDC~

#8 ZaH,

Agreed. Minors can be tremendous trade partners mid- to late-game. Building and donating freighters to them is a great idea!


#7 Star Pilot,

I too have seen "expansionist" minors. I started one game in a corner, with the Carinoids in a system two sectors away from Sol. They immediately produced a Corvette (! - on turn 3) and a colony ship, and took one of the 3 available yellow stars in my area by turn 7. Since they had better technology than me, I had to bide my time. I turned them into trading partners and, eventually, conquered them when I had BH's (under 1.02). I wish I had saved the game (to show a minor start with a "unavailable" technology - they had Corvettes, but had not yet researched Weapons Technology; I traded that to them myself); I deleted it when I updated to 1.03.


#4

Leader,

The advantage depends on circumstances. On a Huge, Crippling, Loose Clusters map, all 5 AI's started with a minor nearby in one of my games. I started with none. This allowed the AI's to grab an early tech and trade lead over me (depending on their approach to the minor - diplomacy/alliance or conquest) along with a nice "free" planet (for those that invaded). It took me quite a while to dig myself out of that hole...it was kind of like playing Civ3 on Deity.

~SDC~

Don't Minor Civs get all the tech available when they join the game? Nothing like building a tech lead and then having some random event rip all your tech advantage away. This seems against the whole random event throws the game out of balance design philosophy of GalCiv. What's the in-game justification for this?

~SDC~

Lot of good points here. I like the idea of gifting them freighters because I like to trade with them - they always seem to have the cash!

I'm thinking that if a minor is in your territory it is safer from AI attack.

I use minor civs to grab all the trade goods. I basically lease all my trade goods and sell it back to them to offset the lease. In my current game I have most of the trade goods and because of them I am making tons of cash.

Hmm, I never thought of giving a minor freighters. Ignorant me! I can make a killing off of that! Thanks.

TNTTony said:

"I use minor civs to grab all the trade goods. I basically lease all my trade goods and sell it back to them to offset the lease. In my current game I have most of the trade goods and because of them I am making tons of cash."

How exactly does that work? Does he mean the minor civ makes the trade goods and he extorts them from the minor civ? Or he sells them to 'em? I've never been very clear on how best work trade goods into the game, except as a one-time cash cow item.



~SDC~

I think he means that he leases the goods and then makes long term deals with a minor civs in exchange for the good to balance the lease payments ex 50 gc for 24 mo

Mr Pink 7:

Ie he buys the good from a major civ and then trades it to a minor civ along the lines of "1 trade good for 50 coins over 10 months" sort of thing?



~SDC~

Buy the tradegoods from Mitrosoft - long lease times but fairly low repayments.
All AIs value the tradegoods very highly and you can make a killing off them if you offer them to everyone else.
You can't sell a tradegood on if you don't actually build it on one of your planets. If you trade it from someone else then all you've done is bought a license to use it, not sell it.

~SDC~