A suggestion for the expansion...If I may be so bold........

I actually agree with you. I moved away from the TEC and started playing the Advent because of their disheveled look. Perhaps in the expansion, one of the new factions could be the 'real' human faction. They could be more imperialistic, and their ships could have a more cohesive appearance.

I recently moved back to the TEC, because I just can't be successful with the advent, for some odd reason. I like the voiceover for the advent, but their ships seem lacking in quality.

I personally like the "beat-up Chevy" in space look
It adds to the feel that the TEC is desperately trying to fight a two front war.

To paraphrase a Blizzard character: they were not prepared.

The way the devs chose the TEC design is pretty coherent for me : they are the more "human" faction, their ships are made of steel (not quicksilver like the advent one).
TEC is far from the more "advance" culture in the game : their weapons were really bad when the Vasaris came and they quickly develop this domain in their laboratories(lots of the technologies are some highly advanced weapons we actually have a prototype : gauss cannon, combination of metals...).
The Advent are the "more advance" human culture due to their psi-abilities and the time they had to prepare their return.
But finally, ingame, apart the look, all the factions have their strengths or their weaknesses, this is just a question of philosophy and heritage.

The Greeks used a weapon known as Greek Fire to burn down enemy ships, and sometimes even on land battles. Today, the recipe for Greek Fire is a mystery. We now have Napalm(and all it's derivatives), but we still have no idea how to make Greek Fire, or mimic many of it's properties in modern fire weapons.
Now imagine if the Greeks conquered Rome, spread it's borders to Asia, colonized the Americas etc without war. Imagine if there hasn't been a single conflict for the past two thousand years. What weapons would we have now? If an alien race showed their faces and attacked, what would we meet them with? We even forgot how to make a burning liquid on a place as small as Earth.
That's the universe of Sins. TEC has had peace for over a thousand years, and enjoyed prosperity as an interstellar culture with no market for weapons and no incentive for research in that direction. Without war, research basically dies, as history clearly showed us that war is the bringer of all progress. There is no reason a TEC ship should have shiny Tritanium armor, Photon Torpedoes and Trans-phasic Shields. They're basically reinventing weapon technology, digging around for ancient relics and duct-taping simple weapons like missiles and railguns to their freighters, luxury cruisers and commuters.

@ #3 & #4

Those are some good points, however I still have to dis-agree. Your trying to convince me that after thousands of years and the ability to colonize hundreds of worlds, they cant do any better then steel & bullets..... please. Even if they had abandoned weapons development they would have had some other advancded technology like really fast engines for their trade ships or something.

But I certainly will never agree that humans aquired the technology to travel through space & colonize seemingly uncolonizable worlds & then just went technologically stagnate as a culture.
They were traders, what they hell were they trading for all those years, steel?! *Scoffs*

Its not that I think everytime humans are depicted in space, that they need to be exactly like star trek. But we are talking about us here... humans.... we cant wait for the next top of the line computer or touch phone. I just cant believe that we would ever go into space & then say "hey we got steel & bullets, why try for anything better." Humans just dont seem to work like that.

Another way of thinking about it, is in a Hand-to-Hand combat situation between a human & a vasari, the vasari has the advantage. In a mental aspect, the Advent would have the advantage. Technology would be the only veasible way to protect ourselves.

People might not like the reference, but I always liked the way humans were depicted in the new 'Lost in Space' movie. Computers everywhere, organic & modular designs etc... like the Jupiter 2's exterior was nice or their "bubble fighters".

But again, these are just my opinions & preferences and I thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts on the matter.  

From historical knowlege, I see no need for an all-consuming empire race;

That's us.

What bothers me is that the humans are so culturally advanced. They follow the Star Trek no-wars-in-forever-because-we've-progressed-past-that paradigmn. Disgusting. Being a member of a chaotic race, I like to play the chaotic race. It bothers me that I cannot experience that from the familiar point of view. Make humans expansionistic next time!! I'm sick of this idealistic humans are goodly explorers idea. Blah.

Oh, one more point. I sort of like the TEC cap ships. They look like destroyers in space. Maybe they could look a little less like cargo freighters, but I think that goes with the unrealistic story.

The truth is, humanity will never be peaceful. Anyone who says it's possible, especially over interstellar scopes, is crazy. We have violence in our genes, and we all have an admiration for power.

At least the men of this species do.

Nope. Women too, Adama.

Yeah, women can be prickly. Anyway. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I was serious. I want humans to be the military giant because I like to play the military giant, and I am human. Maybe a new race could be all the normal humans that the TEC sent away as prisoners who come back for vengence... oh wait.

Ok,

I get all that, & I am not saying that the humans in the game should be peace loving. I totally agree with #6 & #8

But if we were so "into violence" we would have much more efficent killing methods then our current or experimental levels of weapons technology.

I look at it this way, what have these humans been doing all this time before the vasari showed up? Obviously they advanced enough for space travel and mass colonization & then became traders (which is logical) but what were they trading? It seems to me that a stable peacful society would have nothing better to do or trade except the next new technology. So at the very least, as traders, they should have had advanced engines or something that a trader would have use for.

But all of the T.E.C. ships look like they came straight out of a scrap yard to me. Which I guess hass its appeal, but I would have expected the militia & pirates to have that sort of theme, while the "organized" humans would be very advanced & have a more diciplined sense warfare.

Again, just my opinion though......

Are you referring to the in game TEC as "we", or are you living on a different world from the one I inhabit?

Several needed things to make SINS feel like a final beta-release instead of a half-assed beta:

1. Please look at EVE-Online solar systems for a clue.
Primary Zoom level: stars.
Secondary Zoom level: Planets within that star.
Tertiary Zoom level: moons and asteroid belts around planet.
Quaternary Zoom level: close up viewing.

2. Solar systems built logically or semi-logically based on real solar system models. Hottest near to the planet, coldest farthest from the planet. Who the hell thinks 1 sun with an ice planet near the sun, 1 volcanic midway, and a desert/terran at the far reaches makes any sense at all?

All the cosmetics, fleet actions, campaign/objectives are just gloss. Put some work into the universe structure.

3. Small maps should still be at least 2 suns.
4. Huge maps should be just that, not just 5 to 10 suns with feeble solar system design.

Please build a universe, not the tangled, disorganized cluster of crap that the maps are now.

I like the gritty look of the TEC, it's more realistic.

Why should there be humans at all in an interstellar war? If the humans are to be depicted at all, they should be just a crowd of self-absorbed hairy brown, pink, and yellow worms with arms and legs that when they are not shooting one another or running over themselves with hydro-carbon fuelled vehicles, they are wearing digital watches and generating a near-endless stream of text messages about Britney Spears and Brangelina. Just like how it is in the current interstallar war, you know, the one that's raging right this minute with the... oh, dear, I've said too much.

Lol... yes the TEC are humans and so are we, hence the usage of we....  

I think that you are half right, and half wrong Admiral_Cobbs. The TEC are "advanced", robotics is just advance to me as nanotechnolgy or Psitech, it not as wide spread as that of the other two. The reason that I think that there military is not as advance as that of the Vasari or the Advent, can be summed up in a post I found, while look for something:

"What will you do once the one person that challenged you dies? You become rusty, not needing to stay on your toes. You might slip, tip, forget something to cover all your bases. Your thinking and processing will slow and inevitably you will be caught once another challenger comes into play"

The reason that the TEC has an under "advance" military, is beacuse the only opponents that they have ever had, was the militia & pirates. Now base of what the pirates and the militia use, I could say that what they use now, is close to what they use ten years ago, based on the fact, that only the TEC had the resources to build new types of ships.

This means that 10 year ago, the TEC had the Cobalt Light Frigate, Javelis LRM Frigates, Krosov Siege Frigate, Garda Flak Frigate, Kodiak Heavy Cruiser, and other Cruiser that was the runner up to the HC(but now only in use with the pirates). There also could have been the Percheron Ligh Carrier, which would explain why the Flak frigate was made to counter(as there is nothing else).

As far as I understand the TEC factions used the Pirates as we do now, which is why the bounty system was in place, when the Vasari showed up. This means no enemy capital ship, no enemy support cruisers and no faction that had a real standing military. Before the Vasari, the only military forces where Pirate fleets, that were attacking TEC factions(That had bounty on them) and TEC fleets that defended that TEC faction from Pirate attack.

From where I stand, the only military units at the time of the Vasari attack, where the TEC had the Cobalt Light Frigate, Javelis LRM Frigates, Krosov Siege Frigate, Garda Flak Frigate, Kodiak Heavy Cruiser, and other Cruiser that was the runner up to the HC(but now only in use with the pirates). As well as any defense system near those plants at that time.

But you are right, what I said make more since, but does not fit the lore.

Yeah, it's a conceit of the video game industry that there have to be humans in all of the games, or in most of the good ones, anyway. As a human, I'm not complaining too strongly.

Sometimes I like to watch Ridley Scott's film "Alien", and imagine what it would be like a few thousand years from now when the signals from the broadcast of that film reaches intelligent life on some faraway star. From the Alien's point of view, that film would be frickin' hilarious, like watching a Three Stooges marathon. Then in the last five minutes, it would just be a heart (what passes for a heart in an alien)- wrenching tragedy.

I'm drifting way off topic, so I apologize.

I get the impression that the ship models are moddable, so it's only a matter of time before we see a wider variety of ship types. Also, I recall a rumour that Sins will be patched to allow for higher-reesolution textures, and that's something I am looking forward to.

Ideally, I'd like to see the ship-building functions like we have in GalCiv II, that's completely and absolutely brilliant right there. I know this idea has been suggested for Sins, let's hope it can be made to happen (although as a supporting application or mod, as it would be crazy to work out ship designs in game time!)

LOL.
Indeed. And the human race is markedly restrained. We are stuck on one planet, we are in no hurry to develop the technology to smear planets across a solar system!
If humans have no other enemies to fight, then they will gladly dig in and fight themselves. We are a conflict driven race!
As someone up there said, without war, there is no progress.



Truest thing I've ever read.

I think that with the dual-front war going on, the unawares trader union should've gone belly-up then and there.
There really shouldn't be a TEC, only a scattered remnant, a smattering of confused colonies wondering why their much needed shipment of supplies hasn't arrived yet.
The whole TEC thing is very optimistic. Granted, it wouldn't be much of a game if we could not play our own race, but still...
It's a thought.

Thanks ebcommand010, and that why I put those lines into a word file and save it. But I think what you siad fit what we see when playing the game. The TEC factions, when under the control of the AI, act like scattered colonies, that are just trying to rebuild. Which is why we see TEC fleets, fighting other TEC fleets. I think that the lore, on some levels does not fit what we see, or even make sense. Like the slave labor for the Vasari, why do you need slaves, when you have nano tech( which I see as equal to saying, why do you need slaves, when you have robots).

The whole TEC pease thing seems to be more of a cover, for why my culture is better then yours.

Ok,

I am all but ready to gve up on my point already, but here we go...

@ #17

Ok, so no enemy means no military, I get that. But does it mean no advancement?? I mean the TEC ships seem barely space capable to me, let alone a realistic defensive force. If they didnt have enemys shouldnt their ships have become very fast effiecient trading ships after thousand of years with a vast interstellar trading network & all, I mean what did they do all that time, just remain stagnate? Aside from all the realism and looking at the races asthetically, the TEC ships look like they would be ripped apart by the more "Technologically advanced looking" advent or even the vasari. Its almost like looking at your ships and thinking.... I should have already lost....

Needless to say, we will have to agree to dis-agree on that one....

@ #19

Couldnt agree more on all your points.....

I'm not saying that there was not an enemy, I'm just saying that the rate at which they advanced at was slow, because there was no "real: enemy at the time. But I'm with you on the topic of how many of the TEC ships seem barely space capable. You are also right on other topic, which is even with the few combat ships, that they needed at the time, the others should of been very fast "effiecient" trading ships. I think that what @19 or ebcommand010 said was right, where the TEC is more of "scattered remnant", and is the reason why there ships look :barely space capable".

I agree with you on some points, but not on others, Admiral_Cobbs.

Well said homefleet.... well said.

Interesting topic, Admiral Cobbs. I agree it is rather disconcerting to see "our" race as a bunch of disorganized, ramshackle desperadoes. However, the concept of space-faring humans with relatively inferior technology is not uncommon. First thing that comes to my mind is the Halo series. Humans in that sci-fi setting were still using projectile weapons against superior plasma guns and shields. Humans in Babylon 5 weren't exactly the most technologically adapt either. While it's always nice to see ourselves as the leaders of technology, we can't always take that for granted.

In regards to the disheveled appearance of the TEC fleet - it should come as no surprise that these were retrofitted trader vessels. The trader coalition had no need to build dedicated warships until the arrival of the Vassari. If we accept the notion that they were at capitalistic society at peace for a millennia, then it is natural that free market forces would have directed research towards projects that did not have a direct military application. Most of the trader ships would have been optimized for cargo capacity and ease of maintenance - not power or battle survivability. Why waste money on battleships and shielding when you could make more by mass producing the latest fad toy? Now, once the threat of conflict arose, many of the civilian technologies were probably adapted to military purposes. However, it's not like they had them from the get-go.

I don't think that covers the point. What we are saying, is that the ships that the TEC use now, look more like flying space juck. Almost, as if they have juck yards on each planet, and that they are just tranporting the old ship to outer space. This would also make sense, as the rebel factions that are made by the TEC Insurgency power up, use the same ships, as the "top of the line TEC fleets".