Yeah, I say just download it... that's what I did... who needs another box? Easy as pie if you are already connected with Paypal. Besides, I'd say give all your money to Stardock and Ironclad because they deserve it, rather than giving a cut to Bestbuy or Gamestop or whatever.

I downloaded the game off of bit torrent because i wanted to try it, and i liked it.
Not loved, but i did like it. I played it for a couple hours, and decided to go out and buy the game the next day at my local gamestop. I live in NYC and they have been stocking copies around here. I like how the only time you need the serial is if you want to play online, because it gives people a chance to realize how much fun it could be online.

Now I love the game, and I'm trying to get my brother and my friend to buy the game because it's so fun.

Cool! Yet another confessed pirate that has seen the light so to speak. I have to say I have never seen such actions on any other forums for any other titles. This seems to only happen for SD. Moreover on nearly every other official forum an admission of piracy for whatever reason is an instant ban no explanation or rebuttal. Here you are welcomed into the fold and shown love. How awesome is that?

Lol I'm not a pirate i buy almost every game because cracked games can't be played online. I use it as a sort of free rental service to see if i want to spend my money on the game.

No worries brother but for what it is worth by definition that is piracy^ pure and simple.

I know people like to justify things but the cold hard truth is that SD/IC did not authorize Sins to be released on a BT site and they certainly dont want people "demoing" the game when they are making a demo. Then there is the whole "free" experience thing to deal with...

^ I really hate using the word pirate for infringement. To me piracy is infringement for profit and I have a deep passionate hate for such people.

With the lack of the need to have the CD to play unlike alot of retarded games of the past 7 years they will be able to sell more copies. Besides, its more direct money for Stardock and company for the direct downloading. EB and Gamestop pretty much overall retired the PC software market. They rarely even sell windows upgrades anymore let alone PC games. Most of the stores have a shelf area of PC titles about 5 feet by 3 feet. The area with hints/guides is even bigger than the PC section!! EB and Game stop are best for game console style games with quick service. Best Buy leads the way for the range of PC software in general. Distributers lost the PC market due to digital downloading 50% + of the time.

Just my perspective, i have not seen a copy here in Arkansas. (yes yes i have running water, electricity and all such modern things ) Im glad SD/IC offered a download verson, I got the game just a few hours after it was released.

Many people, including me, refuse to shop at certain retail outlets over here so handing my income directly to the publisher suits me just fine. It feels like the guys who made the game get more of the money they deserve rather than it being pushed through a retail outlet that will buy 20 thousand copies and send 15 thousand back..*cough*

I made a 08 resolution not to purchase games through the big monster outlets here, my last wallet killer was empire earth 3, and its just sitting over there collecting dust..waste of income, not entertaining, so it just sits there. No refunds of course, i could trade it in for 5 bucks at a game stop or something but, i just felt insulted by spending that kinda cash on something that wasnt even a good coffee holder. Never again

...course i say all this when i know spore and others are coming out this year, ill just have to slap myself when i reach for the wallet rofl.

I wouldn't buy a game that had that sort of draconian copy protection on principle though so this is a moot point in my case. In fact ironically if it was a good game and crashed because of the copy protection then I would end up NOT buying a game I probably WOULD have paid for, so anti-piracy actually cost them a sale.

I do read reviews and they give me a good idea, and if a game has a demo I'll certainly play that instead of pirating the whole game, but ultimately I will want to play the game in some form before giving them my money. I don't think this is unreasonable, if you are buying a new car you always get to test drive it first, if you buy a new pair of pants you're allowed to try them on first, if you go to buy a new guitar you can play it in the shop for a few hours before you buy it... etc etc.

I happen to agree with you - but perhaps some others might not. There is a difference between extreme bugginess (made out to be so by the pirates) and draconian copy protection, though you and I hate both.

1Spartan, you seem to have a bit of a thing about piracy and the like.. Fair enough I suppose..

Anyway, yes I did download it, because frankly, after reading the forums, seeing the beta screenshots and movies, it wasn't what I expected. If you've played Conquest: Frontier wars, I imagined a game as fast paced as that, but simply bigger, more diverse, etc.

I know SINS isn't that, its much slower and actually doesn't feel all that immersive (probably because the interface isn't quite right for such a big scale game), but it didn't even really pique my interest. I was around pretty much from the begining (not on the forums cos back then they didn't excist lol, but I knew about SINS before all you vets did), and I've seen how its grown over the last few years. And its simply grown in directions I didn't find as fun. Mostly I think IC have made a great engine, but have limited things they shouldn't have (maybe a mod can fix these, but I think they are fundamental engine decisions)

Anyway, I downloaded because I had no money on credit card, and didn't want to wait. I'll get around to buying it if I play it any more.

Otherwise, really, this is what demos are for. So people can play the game without having to buy it....

While I understand that stardock might not have the funds to do a full blown advertising campaign like say Microsoft, Sony, Insomniac, Bioware, EA, ect. Almost none of my customers have even heard of sins and would rather purchase universe at war or other RTS games simply because of the advertising in favor of the other games. Not only does this this make selling sins to the one or two PC gamers that come to GameStop in an average week almost impossible, but I feel a little like these people are being cheated out of a great gaming experience simply because of advertising.
As far as suggestions as to where to advertise, I would recommend the GameInformer. While I realize that I may sound fan boyish by saying it, my two month old store sells around forty subscriptions a week, and many people who would otherwise not notice the game are now faced with huge ads and coverage of a great game. Maybe It's already advertised in there, I haven't checked out the April issue yet, and don't remember the march issue, but certainly I haven't seen any articles offline.
It's a little late now, but possibly in the future with the possibility of a single player campaign maybe some sort of a preview article or something.

Also to those people talking about the consoles getting better shelf space and so on, the big money is in consoles, not only are the games more hyped, but once someone trades in a game for six bucks, the company then markes it up to 17.99 and makes even more off the same game. Another example, Call of duty 4 as of yesterdays date for the PS3 and XB360 trades in for 28.00, without promotions, we then immediately sticker it and place it on the shelf at 54.99, That's how GameStop and EB games makes their money, (Gamestop bought EB by the way so it's the same company).

interface not good?? stop the bad talk you know nothing
and stop making excuses about piracy, its wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong its kills
the pc gaming industry so please stop making lame excuses.
And speaking for the DEVS "we do not care about yout opinion if you have a pirate version"
thats all

I don't know about GI (they've posted rumors as fact about our upcoming fantasy TBS before, as I recall...), but we've had two-page ads and "advertorials" in GFW Magazine and PC Gamer. The GFW ad last month at least was in the front page right inside the cover, even. Short of being *on* the cover, there's not much more high profile you can get

omg it needs like it's own movie and ads during da supa bowl

And on the cover requires you to over hype your game -- games that actually deserve the hype need not apply.

I'm assuming youve tried Target? I know there has got to be a limit to your ad budget but Wallyworld, Target, gamestop, and the pc/game mags would be my focus.

This got me thinking really. While I dont think this game needs to have a campaign to justify the price, I do wonder if having one would of made advertising easier. With singleplayer campaigns you inevitably end up with some very good (hopefully) cut scenes. Blizzard is probably the best at these. Those cutscenes/mini movies make for great advertising material. Its actually something that you could say Stardock has always been a little light on. While I love the game, the opening cinematic to SoaSE is nothing to write home about when compared with other top games. Im sure they are expensive to make but they could pay dividends in terms of advertising. Many of the recent big games have turned them into TV commericals (halo,cod4, etc).

just my 2cents

i found out about this game through research as well. Hadn't heard one peep about it in a magazine, world of mouth, nothing... i went into the NEX (naval exchange and saw it) and im an impulse buying, i buy games that i Think I'll like, looked at Sins for probably a week before i actually bought it. At the time of my purchase i asked the sales clerk if they had any information about the game or did they know anything about it... nothing..... which is what prompted my to get online and read reviews of it and see what the game play was like...
I'm Very Pleased with the game and wish i had programing skill in order to make my own mods!
As far as the advertising goes, I'd have to suggest the best way to reach people (prospective buyers) would be to actually distribute information about the game. And to that end, distribute this information to all the places its being sold at. I dont know much about marketing, but how hard would it be to distribute a small pamphlet type flyer out to 100k stores? Probably would be a lot of money in the end, so who knows maybe its not a good idea; All i know is that Nobody knew anything about this game when it was released! I'm by far not the most informed person out there, but going into a couple different electronics stores (here in Hawaii) and having Not One person know a single thing about the game is a little frustrating.... which leads me to do my own research.. which i don't normally do, why i did here, is because the game really looked good but there's been a ton of games that looked good but failed abysmally in the end!
What this game lacked in advertisement, it made up for in the fact its a Great game and i tell every one i know that plays computer games about it!

I bought my copy at Gamestop. The clerk had never heard of it, and tried to sell me one of their opened display case copies. I asked to get a sealed copy and we went in back and got one. I never trust those opened copies of the game...

Cheap national tv ads would be on scifi network and cartoon network (the toonami guys even do game reviews) Ok, cheap is a relative term, but with the pitiful ratings adult swim pulls in, the airtime cost can't possibly be that expensive.

The idea is not to hit viewers, It's to be able to say you launched a national tv ad campaign to retailers.

And I'd have to agree that advertisements are definitely the place or the dual use of cinematics. Some serious machinima using the in game engine should be possible even.

Another good place for related advertising: the 20 minute reel available before the movie previews.