War Party the best party to pick?

from Stardock Forums
Sure, that's a cutesy title as all parties have their strengths, but I'm starting to think that the War Party (+50% hitpoints) is the 'power' pick of the political parties. Here's my reasons why:

1. It's worth 5 ability points, which is a better deal point-wise than some of the other parties.

2. 150 hp starbases are very tough nuts to crack up to the time of dreadnaughts. Even then they aren't bad with shield upgrades. Considering the increased cost of constructors now you -really- don't want to lose your starbases.

3. It's hard to beat +50% hps when you go on the offensive, your ships tend to survive, repair, and you therefor retain their combat bonuses as they level. You'll win more fights and tend to be stronger as you go along because your units survive better and be have better attack/defense due to their level.

4. It's great for defensive players who never even get into a fight (or at least -hope- not to get into a fight). The aggressiveness of the AI towards you is based on your military power, and that power is calculated among other things based on your ships attack, defense, and hitpoints. +50% hitpoints means you'll have a much nicer rating on the military power graph than you would with just vanilla ships, and for no additional overhead. Peace Through Superior Hitpoints. Battlehammers combined with +50% hitpoints are extremely cost effective and will really jack up your military's scare factor with the AIs.

5. No more +hitpoints from military resources. This means if you take this pick you'll have a huge advantage over an opponent that didn't. And perhaps even more important, if you don't pick it and the AI does then you'll be fighting uphill the entire time you deal with them (they'll be the ones reaping all the benefits mentioned above).

So, from an ability points view, from an offensive military view, from a defensive perspective, and in order to stay competitive with other players who might take this pick I'd say that this is one fine party. I'd definitely recommend it to any newer player, it makes the game easier in a lot of ways.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
iirc HP aren't taken into account on the military power graph, just attack rating. So for games where you are avoiding war it's rather useless. I've had games where I have not fired a single shot. The +50% hp would have done nothing for me. But if you are going for the warpath it is a pretty good pick, though IMHO all the parties are equally good.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
If HP were factored into your Military Power rating, this party would be decent. As was already mentioned, it's not. Therefore, until I get myself into my first war it's useless.

I'd rather have a party that will get me into a position to mobilize for war faster with some sort of early game bonus....although I could see the War Party as being very useful if you spend a lot of time at war with the AIs later on.

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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
While we're on the topic of party bonuses...I've always felt that the Technologists should get +30 to Tech instead of +20. As it stands now their bonuses are equal to 3 ability points worth of picks...the lowest of all the parties I believe.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I usually pick the federalists. 20% economics is nothing to sneeze at.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
If hitpoints aren't figured into the military power curve they certainly should be. It would make no sense if they weren't. That would mean that the computer can't figure out that a 5/3 attack/defense battle cruiser with 15 hitpoints isn't weaker than a 5/4 battlehammer with 90 hitpoints.

It would also make the corvette a great exploit ship, with 3 attack and 1 maintenance at 50 build cost you could have every AI in the game thinking you were King Kong for almost no investment, maintenance, or build time. Two corvettes would count more for military power than one battlehammer, four corvettes would equal a dreadnaught. So if hitpoints aren't counted in the military calculation they very much should be, because otherwise you could easily bluff the computer into never attacking you.

Yeah, the technologists need some help, I'd like to see them with +2 sensors, just because I'm addicted now to that. Each scout can uncover an entire sector by travelling down the middle, makes scouting the map real efficient.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
+2 Sensors and +20 to Tech...that could work, and wouldn't overpower them at all. It would bring them more in line with the other parties. While we're at it, give the Mercantilists an extra trade route instead of +20 to espionage.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I like a strong economy since having one lets you set your expenditures higher, thus effectively giving you a boost to research, military production, and social production all at once.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I usually (when playing for conquest) pick war party and the +50 hitpoint ability. Pretty much unbeatable ships. Just no other abilities to help before a war.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
The Populists are the best party.

20% Diplomacy helps you make money trading techs with the other races.

And 20% Morale helps to keep your people happy, and avoids the need to build expensive to maintain morale enhancing structures.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Having played a different party in each of my games (not the War one yet), you can have fun and win with them all. I've barely noticed a difference between them though, as future events in the game usually shape things more drastically than whatever % I get from the get go.

~SDC~
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
#1

Vorlin,

Fully agree. War Party +50 (along with ability = +50HP) is my favorite pick under 1.03.

BC's +100% are incredibly powerful (when was the last time you could say that, much less build BC's and expect to win with them?)

Brad & SD might have to re-price this pick...

But until then - Party like Genghis, dude!!!

~SDC~
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, I just got done testing it, and it sure doesn't take hps into account. I'm stunned, it just seemed to like it would have to for the military strength to have any accuracy. I quite easily bluffed all the AI civs into never bothering me just by building corvettes. At 50 build cost and 1 maintenance I had the easiest game I've ever played (turtled and went for the tech win to test this out): no wasted military offensive or defensive research, no need for starbases because I wasn't building anything that took a lot of production, no significant maintenance cost, you get the picture.

This definitely has to be adjusted, IMO, as it's incredibly exploitable (as noted above). Not only would fixing this prevent player exploitation but it would also allow the AIs to better judge who they are and aren't capable of attacking.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree completely...the way that military strength is evaluated right now is in severe need of change.

On a side note, since I don't (can't :p ) submit scores to the Metaverse...I've been free to do my own balancing of the political parties. I saw the Mercs and the Techs in need of a boost so here's what I did:

Technologists: +30 Tech, + 1 sensors (5 points of picks)

Mercantilists: +25 Trade, +15 Espionage (about 5 points worth of picks)

I still feel the Mercs are a bit weak, but that very minor tweak makes them a little stronger without exceeding the 5 points of abilities party limit (no party is over 5, and many are only 4).

The Techies are decent with +30 Tech, but not overpowered at all IMO.



Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
If I'm going for a brutal Conquest I choose 5 points Attack, 4 points HP, 1 point Def with Warparty, but other than that Its the people party!

Populists do own peacetime.

~SDC~
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Tsch.. How big your hulls are not a matter of Military power, otherwise a player could build up a fleet of bulk frieghters and be the Imperator of Military might. Niether should defense; How well you can NOT get killed. oppenents are intimidated by your ability to wage offensive war, not how good of a wall you are (Though after seeing how futile their attacks are against your ships, the might have a change of heart) So I repeat, They care about how much your guns hurt them, not how much their guns hurt you.. It would be kinda neat, if they hammer you with a fleet and you get a Russian Winter reputation

~SDC~
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
Verenti, that is not an accurate statement at all. However, if you think it is I invite you to take a group of 50 battlecruisers (attack 5, defense 3, hitpoints 15) and I'll take a group of 50 battlehammers (attack 5, defense 4, hitpoints 90) and we'll see whose fleet walks away. ;)

I held off 4 AI civs that had dreadnaughts and overlords with my corvettes. I don't see how that can't be viewed as a problem. 2-3 dreads or 1-2 overlords could have destroyed my entire military.

As a point of game mechanics, when a defending ship strikes back in GalCiv 50% of its defense is added to its offense for the purposes of determining attack value. This is important to realize for ships like the battleaxe, where it is much better to let them attack you than it is to attack them.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
I go with the Federalists, although I used to prefer Populists.

money makes the world go 'round, the world go 'round, the world....

LOL
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
I used to go with The Populists, but I've switched to the universalists. The luck thing just makes my nuts tingle at the possiblilites. :D :D :D

~SDC~
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
The Populists are quite popular with me. I don't have to worry about morale as much and can get on to the business of ripping aliens to shreds. I choose Tech and speed picks on the pick em table. This provides good balance in the biggest galaxies. I'd go with the war party in a small Galaxy, however, as the fighting comes quicker and happens more often.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
I don't like much the +50% HP ability, anyway what you need is to have ships 1 class above opponents, not "sturdier"ones of the same class.
Federalists are nice because they allow you a good economics start, that help fund your research, then to build hi-tech ships that blast your foes ! LOL
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Za H mentioned using the War Party in combination with +40 Repair (2 points)....Some interesting possibilities there, IMO. The more HP you have, the faster they repair, I believe (repair is % based). This combo could give you ships that are more likely to survive a fight, and back up to full strength in a couple of turns. My new favorite warmongering picks are:

War Party for + 50 HP
+15 Weapons (1pt, and a bargain really)
+10 HP (1pt)
+30 Econ (6pts)
+40 Repair (2 pts)

Final stats:
+60 HP
+40 Repair
+15 Weapons
+30 Econ

Really does wonders for keeping your ships alive, and making a small fleet go very far. Ships that live longer gain levels as well.

Someone mentioned that it's better to simply stay ahead in technology instead of trying to make stronger ships of the same generation of your opponents. On the higher AI levels, it is very, very difficult to be the front runner in military tech. You're going to be using what you can afford to buy of the AIs, so get used to beating them in same ship vs. same ship match ups.


Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
The one time I played the War party it was a disaster. I placed all my points into military traits thinking I would conquer the universe.

What I ended up with was a bad economy, low population and slow tech growth. Maybe I should have put points into economy.
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
I think the War Party is fine, and certainly one of the best if you plan to be aggressive. But head and shoulders above the rest? I don't think so. The other parties have bonuses that are going to be a constant help to you. A bonus to your economy, or trade, or morale, will help you from the moment the game begins until the second it ends. The War Party's big hitpoint bonus only actually matters when you are fighting with someone. And if you aren't playing aggressively, this will hopefully be a minority of your time.

To look at it another way, if you go into the game hoping to play peacefully and win through tech or culture, wouldn't it be better to have big tech or culture bonuses than to have extra hitpoints? Sure the extra hitpoints would be useful! But more useful then bonuses that work directly toward your goal?

FInally, a lot of people who say they think the war party is best go on to say that they add more hit point bonuses on top of the party bonus, and other military bonuses besides. Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that you can "double-up" with the other parties too, and get huge tech or economy bonuses or what have you.
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
I also think the war party is overpowered but this thread is a wonderful example of the balance of this game. Lots of preferences.
I allways get into wars early because i refuse to make useless stuff to fool the AI. No military units until i can make battlehammers (and even they don't count on the powergraph but at least they're powerful). Although Def Zep, maybe i should try battlecruisers + warparty again. The first time i made battlecruisers (without war party) i thought they were a joke and i never touched them since.