AI defends its planets *very* poorly.

from Stardock Forums
In my last game, the genious-level Arceans had a battleship and a defender defending the planet I was trying to assault, Sibil I. My initial fleet of about 8 frigates, 4 battleships and 2 battletransports, augmented along the way with additional forces, had dwindled to only the transports and two battleships, but Sibil was in sight.

The problem was that defending battleship. With the bonus that the defenders get while defending from orbit, I did not dare to risk losing my last remaining forces and decided to delay the assault: reinforcements were on their way, including a shiny old Precursor Ranger two turns away. The whole battle thus far had an epic feel that is hard to describe, my heartbeat was actually faster than normal as I clicked the 'turn' button.

What does the stupid AI do? The battleship defending the planet left the orbit and STAYED THERE. It didnt even attack my belaguarded battleships low on hitpoints and the btransports carrying 10 billion of humanity's finest, it just hung itself outside the orbit, leaving the 31PQ Sibil I to be defended with that lone, ancient Defender.

I of course took the planet, but all suspension of disbelief that had me imagining myself at the helm of 24th century humanity disappeared.

This anectode aside, I have yet to see AI defending its planets properly. It rarely uses battlehammers, then again only for offense; it is not uncommon to find starfighters and defenders in orbits defending homeplanets in the Avatar-Overlord phase of the game.

Perhaps something can be done?

(btw, im playing .49)
901 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Wow i think your copys defective i still play and the bigginer level and my enemys have tons of ships defending there worlds.
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I too have noticed that the "counter attack" algorithms may be a little to strong compared to the "turtle" algorithms. The AIs have to recognize when they are hopelessly outmatched in space and bring their ships back to orbit to receive some bonuses to even things out.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Za H, that's a good way of putting it. The AI seems to run about like a horde of rioters shooting your SBs and freighters, but when you come marching into their sectors with a stack of dreads, they'll still be over in your territory trying largely ineffective guerilla tactics while your prepare to move a whole armored column right into the middle of town square.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
All lies I tell you, the Earthlings have no Dreadnoughts near our home planet, it's all an illusion!
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I find it funny when I roll into a star system with Overlords, Avatars, and Battletransports only to find that the 25+ PQ system is only defended by 5 or 6 star fighters, a few defenders, and maybe the odd battle-axe. I guess what I am seeing is a very meek attempt to fortify their planets with what they have.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
It depends on the AI personality. Let me say it again: There are SIX AI's in GalCiv.

Some of them will defend their planets strongly, others are much more aggressive. They'll make their own mistakes and their own good calls. But it depends on which computer player in question.

The Arceans in 1.02.49 are, IMO, the weakest of the AIs. They are starbase centric but tactically challenged.

In 1.02Z, (the current beta), they have gotten the old/new tactics enhancements added. It will be intereting to see what people think of the NEW Arceans.

~SDC~
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
The only problem is that *I* cant think anything of the NEW Arceans because of this silly decision to let only drengin.net users have the interim patches - it's a pretty cheap call, if you ask me.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Cheap indeed.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
I've definitely noticed the difference between some of the AI choices, both in offense and defense. There is one particular AI that I think I can recognize each time it shows up, it's the 'let's build one hell of a lot of ship and beat the crap out of everyone else'. You can always tell when an AI civ has this one because their military value will start skyrocketing early and never slow down. It's the bane of peace loving tech/influence junkies like myself. :)

I do think there should be certain defensive minimums, ones that must be satisfied before the AI builds any other ship types with that planet. At a certain stage, defenders. Next, battle axes. Then eventually, battle hammers. How many to build could vary between AIs, but at certain stages of the game there just isn't any point to having a class 27 world defended by a lone defender when all the races are 3/4 down the tech tree.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
The intelligence in which they handle star bases and especially constructors really depends on the AI personality too.

Some AIs will just send that constructor all thew ay to the destination before figuring out someone else got it. Others notice instantly.

Basically when we designed the AI we decided which ones would be good at which things in the game. Some AIs are much better at tactical combat than others. Some are better at protecting their planets. Some are better at managing star bases. And so on.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Frogboy said:

> Cheap indeed.

Oooo, bit of a high-hat moment there and NO one got it :)

With regards to the AI, I've not experienced the AI not defending it's planets well, they tend to do a good enough job to keep me on my toes

Admittidly the Arceans are a bit weak on the defensive and usually get slaughted by the other AI's before I can get to them so maybe I've not had a chance to witness their poor decisions first hand

(High-Hat moment is a reference to the old days when the comedians joke was punctuated with some guy on the drums going "ba-da-boom-TISSSSSHHHH" in case no one understood what I was talking about)
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
They call those "rimshots" nowadays. Maybe thenadays, too.

$20 to upgrade to drengin.net to get access to the betas, to three other games, *and* to all the new games from Stardock? Cheap indeed. ;)

~SDC~
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
brad,

i'm glad that you seem dedicated to improving the AI.

while most people seem to be enjoying the level of challenge presented in the game, i'm part of that small but annoying minority who finds the game too easy. i purchased the game thinking i would have absolutely NO chance of winning on the highest levels ( after hearing all the "hype", which by it's nature is exaggerated, about the amazing AI ), and ended up winning on "masochistic" in my fifth or sixth game.

so beef up that AI, because no one's going to complain about intelligent+ being too hard.

keep up the amazing work.

cheers

h
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
As long as stand alone patches are produced pretty consistently (as in once every 2 weeks to a month), I have no problem myself with Stardock users and Drengin subscribers getting patched far more often. In my book, it is good that the Galciv folks are supporting both camps. Of course people who pay subscription fees and/or are willing to give up more private information and be tracked easier should get more perks more often.

I am more afraid of the day to come in the software biz when people CANNOT get standard stand alone patches, but must further empty their wallets or provide enough demographic info to be constantly tracked (or both) for this kind of customer service. That is food for thought for those of us still quaint enough to do everyday business in cash in person. :notsure:
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Horatio,

For the time being, I would suggest you play with some house rules – say not building any culture starbases if you are using them extensively (noticed you won predominately via culture). That should really add to your challenge while the developers work to up the AI and bring back the more complex AI routines.

I’m also one of those who have managed to win a few games at the higher AI levels but have been doing so predominately through the employment of the culture bomb strat. I’ve been planting culture starbases right in the heart of enemy races with impunity. Though they did turn hostile, they were simply unwilling to pick a fight with my huge armada of dreadnoughts and AMMs.

Though culture modules had been nerfed slightly in a recent patch, perhaps the culture bomb strat needs to be further nerfed or at least induce a much stronger backlash from the culturally invaded race. It is currently simply the most time and cost-effective strat to conquer enemy races.

As for the topic in discussion, yes, I have noticed at even the higher AI levels that particular AIs would rush out to counter-attack a superior force even though staying in orbit would have been the more "logical" choice. Like Brad said, each AI have their own preferred defensive strategy which may not always be the one us humans may choose.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
According to Brad, the culture-bombing will be much harder, as cultural magnification will be affected by how far from your worlds a starbase is.

~SDC~
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Rimshots? That has a different meaning here, though SOMEWHAT related to rhythem sticks, probably not in the same way....
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
Google "Rimshot" and "comedy" and you'll see exactly what I mean. :)

~SDC~
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Ray is right. Culturalbombing is 'easy' if you know how to play the game.

I do think that Beyond Human is still a bit too easy too, especially in bigger galaxies. I think the AI should also be able to reach 'Beyond Arcean/Torian/Drengin/Yor/Altarian'.

Like Ray said though. Try to win by military conquest on masochistic, that should be a different ballgame. Not impossible, but much harder than the cultural victory.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Which is why it's harder in the beta patch (and will be in 1.03), at least as I understand it.

I don't mind that the AI can't win by reaching "Beyond splat" because it's kind of meaningless to the game. At best, any race that reaches "beyond" should probably just vanish.



~SDC~
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Why shouldn't the Ais reach beyond tech and vaporise their enemies thus winning the game?

That would lead to interesting late game challenges for humans who are lagging behind the Ais in tech. We would have to either play catch-up or attack an technologically superior enemy.
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
Er, because the "Beyond Human" tech doesn't mean that humans vaporized their enemies. All it means is that humans have gone "Beyond the Rim" or to the West, to the Halls of Mandos or whatever. :) The cool cinematic that shows the human ships blowing away the aliens was for the fireworks.

The late game challenges that come about because you lag behind the AIs in tech already happens. You do have to catch up or you have to face trading about six of your dreadnoughts for one avatar or some such thing.

Since the "Beyond Human" tech victory means that humans have simply ascended beyond the material concerns of this galaxy, then any "Beyond Drengin" or whatever tech likely means the same thing - so anyone who reaches it goes away. A victory for them, but meaningless for everyone else.

~SDC~
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
Raychua,

i won via culture in both those games because i was too impatient to win militarily or via science. i only start "culture bombing" *after* my dominance has been established, not as a tactic to achieve dominance.

i would argue that a military victory on masochist would be more tedious than anything, since the tactical AI is not great and does not exploit military resources very well you'd just end up crushing wave after wave of enemy ships while sacrificing half your population building transports. better to just use terror stars.

cheers

h
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
In a similiar vein I think the Yor also need some minor updating. They seem incapable of recognizing the concept of fleets. Istead they send ships one at a time towards my sectors on a single route. When I fight them I just keeps a few ships along their route and pick them off one at a time. They even send unescorted transports and later combat transports along this route. It can get fairly entertaining as the mini-map has a string of purple dots pointed at my nearest system and I just pick them off one by one as when they reach my waiting ships. This has occured in the last three games I played when I went to war with them and it allows me to basically shred their fleets, even when they heavily outnumber me. I have been playing on large galaxies with all the AI's set to intelligent. Also none of the other civ's do this. The Dregin in particular are much smarter.