Evaluating Military Strength

from Stardock Forums
Does anyone know how the game evaluates military strength? (There is a Military Power graph available and I assume that those are the numbers used by the AI to assess it's military power).

After my most recent game, I have recent to question the validity of the Military Power graph. We were in the early portion of mid-game ... Several races had Turbo Phasers and/or Interstellar tactics but no one yet had Battleships. The Dregnin had gotten Turbo Phasors relatively early and had built up a large fleet of battle cruisers. I had gone straight for Intersteller Tactics (by-passing Turbo Phasors) and was building a fleet of almost exclusively Frigates. Both I and the Dregnin had significant Military bonuses due Polical Party/Pre-Game Empire Picks and so we were in the fairly standard situation where each my Frigates had about the same stats as his battle cruiser and 3 times the hit points. The Dregnin had significantly more Battle Cruisers than I had Frigates (but not three times as many) and additionally, the Dregnin had many obsolete Defenders and I had no Defenders. (Additionally, we each had a small number of Battle Axes).

The bottom line is that I and the Dregnin had comparable military power. The Military Strength graph showed the Dregnin had twice as much Military power as me and so naturally, the Dregnin declared war when I refused to pay tribute. Unfortunately, for him each of my Frigates had no trouble taking out two of his battle cruisers and I was able to occassionally cycle frigates back to a safe system for repair. Ultimately, because I was losing fewer ships than him (and my economy was slightly stronger than his) I won the war.

These events caused me to question the way method the Military Power graph uses to assess Military strength. It is possible that the Dregnin's military was stronger than mine at the begining of the war, but it is unreasonable to consider that it was twice as strong as mine. In this example it seemed that Battle Cruisers were valued too highly compared to Frigates. I would be interested in hearing other people's observations on the validity of the Military Power graph.

Thanks,
- Matt Lepinski :->

~SDC~
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
My impression was that it's based on base Attack plus base Defence summed for all ships. I don't think it takes into account modifiers for being in orbit, having starbases etc and maybe it also fails to account for abilities and hit points.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes ... defenders are a great early build to keep up your military strength - 4 pts for 50 cons. Battlecruisers are 8 for 150, and battle axes are 7 for 120.

A defender per planet is usually enough to keep the AI from demanding too much money of you. Usually. You never know with the Drengin.


~SDC~
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
this is only vaguely related, but has anyone else noticed the AI's extreme aversion to battlehammers?
their huge hitpoints (more than a battleship or dreadnought) and high defense make them totally indestructible and they only cost 200 to build. they're also available at a fairly low tech level. but the AI almost never uses them, prefering to roll out pissant frigates and cruisers in huge numbers.

i agree that the military power graph seems slanted towards "quantity" rather than "quality".

cheers

h
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I've had the impression the military and technology graphs, at least, were based upon *spending*. The upticks and downturns in the graph seemed to correspond to when I'd ratchet up one or the other.

For example, when Battleships were finally available for me to research, I cranked the research meter up to about 80% until it was finished. Then, I turned military spending up to 80% to crank out a few battleships quickly. Then I returned everything to normal levels(30/30/40).

The graphs had matching spikes in military and technological might.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
FFAristocrat,

Thanks a lot, that makes a LOT of sense!
(I had never considered that the graph might be Military SPENDING and not Military POWER ... Of course Maintence costs get lumped in with military construction costs so the two are related ...)

In any case, I still agree with Horatio that in general the AI should more emphasis on Hit Points than it does ... Hit Points can make a high difference in a fight.

- Matt Lepinski :->

~SDC~
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
While the technology and manufacturing graphs represent spending, the military graph does not. I am quite sure of this since I have been running my empire without ever spending in all three areas simultaneously (this is in effort to minimize waste). As my military spending drops as close to zero as ship maintenance allows, the military power graph will never budge like the technology and manufacturing graphs would. I agree with the established view that military power is determined by adding up attack and defense points of all your units (or something close), except non-combat units are excluded from the calculation. No, the Drengin were not impressed by my armada of scouts :notsure:
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
"While the technology and manufacturing graphs represent spending, the military graph does not."

That's my take on it as well. As "proof", all you have to do is watch the Military graph during a war. As ships are destroyed, your power drops, even if you leave your military spending alone. On the other hand, try putting all your money into research and watch your Manufacturing power plummet.

- Ash

~SDC~
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Upkeep it can't be neither, because Frigates have a much higher upkeep cost, than battle cruisers have.

~SDC~
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I was under the impression that the military graph was just a straightforward sum of attack and defense without taking account of hitpoints. Like that GNN report that comes up every so often telling you you A+D comes to X and the Drengin's A+D comes to more than X and you're buggered.

@ Horatio, I've definitely seen and been on the receiving end of Drengin battlehammers. Was just about holding out with corvettes and then a battlehammer turns up...