i know AI doesnt cheat, but how is it possible? (no flames, just a question.)

They might have scouted with the survey ship. You know, the wormholes and stuff. The survey ship might have went through one and left through the same one the same turn...

Just a thought...

it is unlikely becouse survey ship comes from the direction of altarian home planet, and is going somewhere up. also it is more than 5 small sectors from the resource (his sensor range). if it would go thru wormhole, i would have seen it becouse its just near my base. also it happens every time i load this save (this is save from turn 0). i can send it to anybody, if anybody cares altarian doesnt have any scout...

the AI does cheat... it has a better view of the galaxy, which means they don't have the initial fog of war (thus seeing all ressources and also these extra thingies for the survey ship) they also know where the yellow stars are. On lower intellifgence levels they are set to ignore some of that information. So you are right the Altarians cheat in this regard.
I guess that, when the AI gets betther (due to upgrades), then the programmers will remove that ability again.

~SDC~

I thought the AI could *only* see where yellow starts are located w/in the fog of war (equivalent of Stellar Cartography tech). I'm pretty sure it can't see resources, unless that area has first been explored.

~SDC~

stevious is right, BvG is wrong. Simple as that. At least Frogboy has requested savegames with proof of the AI doing stuff like colonizing out of range or homing on resources it doesn't know, and noone has yet given him one where he couldn't find an explanation for it.

Basically, it may *look* as it cheats, but it simply does not.


Astro

~SDC~

i agree that it is possible to produce many constructors/colony ships very quickly, or to have much money (from really good economy) or do other stuff that looks like cheating - but is not. but this ? i was looking at this game session VERY carefully becouse i read many post saying AI is cheating or not cheating. most of the situations AI is not cheating, but i think in this - it is. this is just my thought, i may be wrong but please, if you care, show me im wrong. becouse if it wasnt wormhole (and it wasnt), then how? this 2 constructors are going straight to this resource after only few turns. maybe AI starts with much bigger sensor range of home planet ? i have no idea. if Frogboy says AI is not cheating i believe him - so this may be just a bug

Send him your save, and he'll look at it, I'd say.

What's possible, considering this isn't a bug, the AI may have entered a wormhole, came out somewhere in the "south" of you, where you couldn't see it, he found THERE a ressource and sent his Constructors there. While on their way to the southern ressource they - accidently - found the one beside you.

But I'd reccomend sending it to Frogboy.

~SDC~

Yeah send it to Brad.

I pity him. He created such a good AI that he is now forced to proove that its not cheating. I am sure there will be a reasonable explanation to what you have noticed. And if Brad does reply to your email with an answer PLASE let us all know...

They (altarians) couldnt becouse i can see their survey ship going north of their home planet. theoretically their survey ship could jump in one wormhole near the resource, and then jump in another wormhole just a little north of the home base, but then - doesnt a wormhole teleport you to a random position every time it is used? i thought so - and if so, then it is not possible becouse it happens every time... also, i thought wormholes usually teleports you to a place in some distance from where you entered wormhole - and this is pretty close. (but not in the range of sensors )

i pity him too and i dont want to send him more work... i dont mind if he just ignore it its rather a question to community that to a very busy developer who gives us patch almost every day
but if he asks, i can send it at any time

There have been other threads from people wondering how the AI stumbled across a resource. AFAIK, these issues have all been explained thus far. Probably wouldn't hurt to send in the save game file anyway. If the devs don't have time to look at it, they won't. But if they do and find a problem it will benefit us all. These kinds of posts IMHO are much more constructive because you have something for them to look at.

~SDC~

I agree with Stevious up there. Send in the save. They can decide for themselves how busy they are.

IF the AI is cheating you have just made an important contribution to the community.

IF the AI is not cheating, then you have an opportunity to learn a little more about the game.

It's a win-win to me.

M

I think the AI can see resources. Depends on what kind of object they are internally. But as the back story goes, they do know where yellow stars are, it would probably fit in that they would know about the location of galactic resources are too -- though that wasn't really intentional. Just depends on whether they inherit from the star object or ship object.

~SDC~

Brad - I guess that begs the question: Do you want the AI to be able to see resources?

-John

~SDC~

sure, if they know this galaxy, and know where are yellow stars, why shouldnt they know about good resources? it is logical but i just didnt know that in some situations they know now its clear, thank you

Wait, you're not sure if it does? I thought it had been stated the AI only saw planet classes, not resources. And if they can see resources, does this mean they might also be able to see all anomalies as well? Or does the AI just start with the whole map explored?

i *think* that AI can see resources that are close to their planets (even if they are not in sensor range). at least thats what i noticed, but im just guessing...
and im 100% sure that in some situations, when resources are far away, AI cant see them until it explores it

Hmm...there was a resource open in a sector where there was a big battle with the Drengin for. I got there first and put a starbase on it. Cleared out all of his ships first though. I then watched as his 2 constructors continued to move to that resource. When they got there they just stopped, and eventually went away or I killed them (don't remember), but obviously the AI didn't know I had beat him to the resource until it got there.

The AI is just very streamlined, I can get more planets in the opening of the game, but the AI's seem to be able to do a lot more with very little. I know what they are doing, it's just hard to keep up with.

LeeAbe - Yeah, that continuing to head to an already appropriated resource/planet is an odd behavior by the AI. It's particurally noticable in the larger galaxies. I've seen an AI civ send 10-20 colony ships out to an area that I've already conquered, and that's on intelligent. It's not wrong for them to be trying to grab the planets, but if they have contact with me, they should be able to tell when something, especially a planet, has been conquered.

~SDC~

To AbeDralok, I'll try to make some sense to what Brad is saying. He only programmed the AI to be able to know the star color. But what he said was that he wasn't sure if, internally in the code, the Resources were defined as a "kind" or star or a "kind" of ship. If the first, it's possible that the AI knows where they are as a sideeffect of the star color thingy. If the second, they there's no way for the AI to know and this is just another case where the player is being mislead because of something he didn't see the AI do.

That make sense?

Astro

~SDC~