Spartan Spartan

Stardock Fights Strategy Game "Consolization"

Stardock Fights Strategy Game "Consolization"

with Sins

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8933&Itemid=2
OK here I go stealing candy again... :SURPRISED:

Brad made Next Gen's daily news digest and as the top story to boot today!

Sins of a Solar Empire is pushing back hard against the "consolization" of the strategy genre.- Frogboy
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Way to go Brad!

[cheerleaders appear out of no where]
Bricka, bracka firecracka, shis, boom, bah,
Brad, Brad he's our Frogboy
If he cant hop it no one can!

:CONGRAT:


Anyway, see the link for all the detailed goodness.
45,512 views 36 replies
Reply #26 Top
Arilias
You made some very good points but I still feel that the simplification as you call it is thanks to marketing aimed at the younger generation of gamers who are not on the same intellectual level as the minority of us
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Maturity and intelligence are not functions of age.


As the kids have the spending power of both the parents and themselves that’s why consoles have remerged.
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...I was under the impression that consoles had emerged because they were significantly cheaper than dedicated gaming computers, can play anything right away straight out of the box, can be hooked up easily to a display device vastly better than most monitors (and come with the equipment you need to do it), are far more portable than desktop PCs (my main computer is a gaming laptop, incidentally, it was horrendously expensive) and that some people (including myself) genuinely prefer a controller over a mouse and keyboard.


As for the simplification of games it has started as a result of compatibility issues for yet again (marketing) making a game available to the largest audients maximise profit
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The actual reason for what the industry is doing doesn't matter. Only the results do. If simplification now leads to a larger market for more complex games later, then the industry will fill that niche. Oblivion's a good example here - Bethesda made it appeal to a wider player base for all the wrong reasons, but the result was that, suddenly, a lot of people who would never even think about touching a true RPG realized what the big deal was.


so they drop features that aren’t compatible with consoles as the pc can do just about all that a console can do but not the other way around.
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I'm going to ignore this for the sake of being civil.


I feel as a result we are taking steps backward as opposed to forward in gaming terms I feel we should set high intellectual levels in games to force people to learn, think and expand themselves intellectually

This dose not mean that we should get rid of the flash games at all just wish they would stop making one game for two separate platforms with two separate mentalities.
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Do me a favor. Look up in the top-right hand corner of the screen, at the little red button that says "FAQ." Then, come back and tell me who Sins's target audience is.

Personally, I do think we should get rid of all-flash-no-substance games. Completely. Nobody likes them. No, seriously, I challenge you to go out into the streets and find one person who thinks that graphics are more important than gameplay. The only reason we get the graphics over gameplay effect at all is that graphics are easier to market.

The question isn't "flash or substance," though, it's "accessible or complex," and that's a much harder question to answer, because there's a definite case for both, and until recently the vast difference in complexity between, say, Madden and Civilization has been made it impossible for people to get from one to the other. Isn't there room for a middle ground?


Just my 2 cents

p.s hope you are right about the pendulum effect
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Damn straight I am. (I can only imagine the conversations developers and publishers must have about this: "If we fire your entire writing staff, we can afford to spend more time making this graphics engine the best in the world! The screenshots will be an instant hit!" "But nobody cares!" "Tough.)

I also apologize if I accidentally offended anyone somewhere in here. The "glorious PC gaming master race" mentality just gets on my nerves. A lot. Especially since it comes from normally quite intelligent people.
Reply #27 Top
can be hooked up easily to a display device vastly better than most monitors
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You mean vastly inferior, don't you? Even HD screens don't have half the resolution of most PC monitors.
Reply #28 Top
Arilias good counters BUt  :LOL: 

Maturity and intelligence are not functions of age.[/quote]

we will have to agree to just disagree on that

The only reason we get the graphics over gameplay effect at all is that graphics are easier to market.
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why do you think that is

if the majoraty of gamers hate flash games
Reply #29 Top
can be hooked up easily to a display device vastly better than most monitors


You mean vastly inferior, don't you? Even HD screens don't have half the resolution of most PC monitors.
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I'm calling BS on this. I don't have a particularly intimate knowledge on the relative resolution of monitors and televisions, but I find it very hard to believe that a device whose primary purpose is to let you see what you're typing in Word has a significant edge in visual quality over a device designed explicitly for the purpose of an entertainment medium (film and television) that demands excellent visual quality. Certainly, most gaming PC monitors are probably comparable to a good TV (I still refuse to credit most of them with better resolution than an HD monitor unless you can show me some hard numbers), but see my earlier comment re: gaming computers and expenses.


Arilias good counters BUt

Maturity and intelligence are not functions of age.[/quote]

we will have to agree to just disagree on that
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Fair enough, I suppose. I just have some bad blood from back when I was a mature and intelligent fourteen-year-old, who hung out with other mature and intelligent people on the internet, who unfortunately seemed to be of the belief that all teenagers were hopelessly immature and intelligent. I don't know what would've happened had I ever revealed my actual age.


The only reason we get the graphics over gameplay effect at all is that graphics are easier to market.


why do you think that is

if the majoraty of gamers hate flash games
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Graphics have a direct and immediate punch. Seeing a pretty screenshot or trailer has an immediate effect - "Hey, that game has really good graphics." Gameplay is trickier to quantify and very difficult to get across within the space of a trailer or magazine ad. It's certainly possible to advertise through gameplay, and I will welcome the day when the demo becomes the standard method of advertising games. Unfortunately, most gamers don't play demos - not because they don't want to, but because they don't frequent the kinds of places where they could acquire demos - though the shift towards downloadable demos on consoles is changing that, and marketing finds it much easier to print out screenshots by the dozen then invest in something that will actually show gameplay strength.

This is changing, fortunately. BioShock succeeded - and actually found mainstream appeal - on an advertising campaign based on its gampelay. Do a Google Trends search on it, and you'll see that nobody had heard of BioShock until the demo was released in late August, and then interest spiked like mad.
Reply #30 Top
[/quote] Graphics have a direct and immediate punch. Seeing a pretty screenshot or trailer has an immediate effect [/quote]

But surly if all the intellectual people out there who understand games and their mechanics
if they are indeed smart they know to go research a game and not to buy on looks alone.

the point is they dont they go ooooohhh looks prity lets buy
then off to mommy to get bucks

and its not a bad thing as the entire market is aimd at that as the younger generation that dose not have the bad experiances that living life brings (young dumb and full of c%^) with it and as a result dont take time to think about things before they do them its all now and here and i believe the saying goes don’t judge a book by its cover.

the markating engen is aimd at that steriotyp and it is working and as a result of this pc games are being affected for compatability
rember markating only works because we let it

ps there is only one thing in this world i trully hate and thats is markating NOW before everyone jumps down my throte i know it is a nessesary eivil and we will never be rid of it
just a pity that flash is winning over content as the mass is to stupid to think before they buy

just my 2 cents am now tierd of this debate (lifts glass) heres to its death


Reply #31 Top
If Sins and WoW would be for consoles I would almost never turn on my pc. Consoles are just much better for games because there is only one hardeware and there are NO compatibilty issues for graphic cards or too slow machines where you get unplayable framerates. On PC you have to buy a new one after a few years to play new games. :(
Reply #32 Top
I'm calling BS on this. I don't have a particularly intimate knowledge on the relative resolution of monitors and televisions, but I find it very hard to believe that a device whose primary purpose is to let you see what you're typing in Word has a significant edge in visual quality over a device designed explicitly for the purpose of an entertainment medium (film and television) that demands excellent visual quality. Certainly, most gaming PC monitors are probably comparable to a good TV (I still refuse to credit most of them with better resolution than an HD monitor unless you can show me some hard numbers), but see my earlier comment re: gaming computers and expenses.
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1080p (i.e. the best high-definition resolution) is 1920x1080. I dunno if any of the current consoles besides the PS3 offer that as an option.

720p, the next best, is 1280(?)x720.
Reply #33 Top
I'm calling BS on this. I don't have a particularly intimate knowledge on the relative resolution of monitors and televisions, but I find it very hard to believe that a device whose primary purpose is to let you see what you're typing in Word has a significant edge in visual quality over a device designed explicitly for the purpose of an entertainment medium (film and television) that demands excellent visual quality. Certainly, most gaming PC monitors are probably comparable to a good TV (I still refuse to credit most of them with better resolution than an HD monitor unless you can show me some hard numbers), but see my earlier comment re: gaming computers and expenses.
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I'm not up to date on the latest TV technology, but there's a wiki article with the following info:

SDTV: 480i (640×480)
EDTV: 480p (720×480)
HDTV: 720p (1280×720)
HDTV: 1080p (1920×1080)
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1280x1024 is the "basic" resolution for most monitors these days, from what I can tell -- placing it above 720P, and below the 1080P. Looking at 1080P TV's, your looking at a 2 thousand dollar investment, so I'll ignore them in favor of 720P... which is still a hefty 300 to 1000 dollar investment, compared to the 200$ I could spend on a monitor with a better resolution than my current one.

The disadvantage, of course, is that computer monitors are smaller than TVs... which doesn't matter, because you sit closer to a monitor than a TV, its a purpose difference. That purpose difference does, however, make the TV an even worse choice for computer useage.

Reply #34 Top
Sheesh. The comments are funny but my lord, there is room for both Consoles and PC gamers folks.

I all but abandoned my PC and picked up Console gaming when the Dreamcast was forged,mostly because of the ease of play. ( and Soul Calibur ) Put the game in, play the game. There was no need to upgrade endless drivers, worry about minimum specs or what version of DirectX I had loaded, annual graphics card upgrades etc.

The console world has many good points and some fantastic games, but it will probably not conquer the RTS/MMORPG/True RPG/4x genres. They simply play better on a PC.

Driving, Shooters, Fighters and some Action games on the other hand are purified gold on the console platforms.

I own an X-Box 360 and love it. I play the other genres on the PC when a game like this comes along.

Gamers are Gamers! We play for the joy of the game!

Fanboys on the other hand... well they are an entire different breed.

-AceQ-
Reply #35 Top
AceQ, I could not agree with you more.
Reply #36 Top
(I still refuse to credit most of them with better resolution than an HD monitor unless you can show me some hard numbers)
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The hard numbers are out there. Check the stuff that people said above, or do a quick Google search on something like "HDTV vs Monitor." Resolution on monitors has been "HD" for a long time. As someone pointed out in an article I read awhile ago, Doom was in high definition, technically.

I just have some bad blood from back when I was a mature and intelligent fourteen-year-old, who hung out with other mature and intelligent people on the internet, who unfortunately seemed to be of the belief that all teenagers were hopelessly immature and intelligent.
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I'm sorry, there's no way to say this without sounding harsh: Until you wrote that, I thought you were an intelligent 14 y/o. Your post could be completely mirrored from stuff that I posted back then. You have some very good points, but the confrontational, over-the-top tone you use is going to make people just nitpick stuff you say and miss what you're getting at.


there is room for both Consoles and PC gamers folks.
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This. Someone put it very well to me once when they broke down the two: PC gaming is about the hunched-over-the-key-board-energy-drink-just-one-more-level-crap-is-the-sun-coming-up? intensity type of play. Consoles are about longing back on the couch with a controller, a couple of buddies and a tasty beverage until 2 in the morning. Both are fun, both are valid and both have their place.



Also, most people can only afford one or the other. I, personally, think that playing a strat-game on a console is bone-headed...but I know that there was a person out there waiting for Civilization IV and C&C 3 on their console just as much as I was waiting for Gears of War and Guitar Hero 3 on my PC.