Culture and Abandon the Galaxy

from Stardock Forums
Although i've been luving GC i find that 2 elements tend to lower my appreciation of the game.

1. Systems changing hands due to culture. Seems way to easy and somewhat like victory without the 'pain'. Once it starts normally the game stops being fun. General result is 2 empires left. Would really like to see culture contribute to victory in a lessened mode, either weakens system ability to resist (if invade) or adds to empires 'something' (say combat capability, economic strength, etc.). May not be doable but really tired of building up great military then have the enemy defect to me before get a chance to use it. Even if got a message like in 'civ3' that system wants to defect do you want them with a bribery cost to silence the loyal opposition would be better.

2. Somewhat connected with #1, is the races abandoning the galaxy and turning everything over to some other empire .. i really find this not all that believable. I could understand a decline into chaos and the empire falling apart, but systems in my mind then have to be taken either by the almighty dollar (that is again bride the powers that be to join you) or by military assault. Otherwise would expect the empire to stay and fight it out (plus maybe ask for alliance against someone .. don't see any off that going on).

So .. although really like the game once the above starts it really degrades my enjoyment. Peraonnel view only after 6-7 games all ending up in cultural trading fests.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I suggested to Brad that after a system defects, nearby systems should be (at least for a few years) more resistant to defections. People (and aliens) move from planet to planet, and you'd expect those who weren't pleased with the defection to move away. That said, I strongly disagree with the point of view of some that the only kind of victory that "counts" is military conquest. One of the strengths of GC is that there are ways to win *other than* military conquest.

As for point #2, sometimes you are in such dire straits that all you can do is decide whom to surrender to. Countries have been wiped off the map (e.g. Poland), and other countries have existed solely as puppets of others (e.g. the Baltics under the USSR).
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I lost a huge galaxy game where I put 0 ability points into culture.

fyi (as it was the best civ game ever played!):
The good Torians had conquered most of the galaxy using warships and culture. Torian final: grid 3,0 - 3,7 to 7,0 - 7,7. They declared war on my evil empire (and the evil Dregins, my eventual allies) early in the game. The only reason I lasted 300 turns was the Dregins and I were adjacent sectors. Trade routes were between sector 0,0 and 0,7 (safe fromo the Torians). With starbases maxed for trade in col 0, I was getting 1450g/turn. My other starbases were maxed prod, def and culture. I started puting military bases in Dregin sectors. I had a class 41 planet, adjacent to Torains, with all cultural and manufactoring achievements (and starbase to boot). I couldn't change the adjacent sector's color. The Torians never produced an Overlord but had so many Avatars and Pheonixs that they overwhelmed mine and the Dregins Overlords and Avatars.
Stalemate. We barely held our own in col 3 and couldnt get our fleets into sector 4,5 or 4,4 (where all the fighting was).
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
THe culture system is still being worked on.

You want to have cultural victories but you don't want them to just be overpowering like that.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
BTW, the reason why the culture stuff is so tricky is that you're dealing with very slight changes making a big difference, especially depending on the galaxy.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Point is that i do like the culture part but even given what everyone says hard to believe would go as in game, once it starts just seems to go so fast.
Also don't believe that military victories are the only means of success, just historically the most prevalent. I'd find economic domination more believable then cultural.

What bothers me about the culture part is that if folks start defecting system by system one would expect some form of negative repercussions from the empire leaving from ... not just building things to stop it but yes application of restrictive trade, police etc... so think once one system did defect would get harder from then on as stated above.

Don't concur with bug out and systems default to someone .. leadership may flee to some island paradise, but then civil strife usually follows not we join you cause we like you better.

oh well just opinions ..
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
'Don't concur with bug out and systems default to someone .. leadership may flee to some island paradise, but then civil strife usually follows not we join you cause we like you better.'

This does occur under other conditions. Poor morale can cause rebellion. Underwhelming culture can cause defection. In the case where both exist, defection is the usual result.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
civil strife usually comes in waves, there is a inrush then a backlash, then another inrush after a while then a backlash.

There needs to be more of a staggered effect rather than a total collapse all at once. There should be some bigger lulls in order to create cultural firebreaks, and the AI should recognize the need to build constructors instead of freighters.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I think that other empires should think less of me when one of their systems decides to join me. As mentioned above they should (depending on their current mood) either declare war, stop trading or send me a warning message. Also, as mentioned above, I should be able to say "No" to the systems that want to join my empire and thereby escape their wrath.

I've so far played about 15 games and most with medium or large galaxies. So far all my games are effectively over (won or lost) before I research Battleships. I have never seen an Avatar, Phoenix or an Overlord. I've tried to postpone my victory by not attacking, but then my culture overwhelms the other races. :sniff!:

Aside from that, I think GalCiv is going to be a great game and I'm very impressed with the way you handle feedback from the players and the frequency of the updates. I've been following moo3 for almost 3 years now, so I know how bad it can be!
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Neuro, do you point ability points into influence? I found out that right after a planet rebels and joins me, if I put a ship there, the AI usually attacks and war begins. If I leave the planet unprotected for a few turns, the AI ships leave. I also had planets defect and traded them to AI for 3000 gold or lots of techs. (they usually defect again within 10 turns)
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Could understand the defection better if had some form of Alliance, Protectorate, or other agreement. This seems to be totally absent from current build .. even if an AI race is at war there seems to be no attempt going on via diplomacy to get help to stave off the 'red menace' (in latest the Drengin) by asking for help.
Still if the culture dominance is ever balanced will be nice feature, just hard to believe an entire empire would defect as occurs in the game .. needs a better 'story' to go with it. As mentioned before i could understand either an economic take over or military (or say a combination of economic and cultural .. which makes a lot more sense) then pure culture.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Does the AI have the ability to:
1) increase moral on a planet's detail screen
2) fast build cultural resist improvements on planets that need them
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
"Culture" (I think this should really be called "influence") is more of an insiduous thing, like the proliferation of McD fast food chains, than it is of tradition or background. The joining of planets to another race's "way of life" is more a change of living style than it is of who rules. The defecting planets are saying "I want my BK and fries and if I have to leave the Torian Confederacy to do so, that is what I will do!" I don't see this as joining another race so much as changing one's life style.