The Nanoripper...overpowered?

My god, it must be

It seems to me that the nanoripper blows the socks off every other weapon in the game. This weapon you get by going through the mass driver line from mass drivers to singularity drivers, and then at gravity driver I you also get the Nanoripper.

While the gravity driver does 3 damage, the Nanoripper does 8. It also have a relatively low space, and only costs about 3-4 times as much as a gravity driver. In the driver line, the Nanoripper is not outdone in its damage/space ratio until the very last two techs (which are also expensive weapons). In fact, you are better off researching better hulls, miniturization, and defenses once you obtain the Ripper.

In my games as well, I have seen little reason for using any other weapon once getting the nanoripper. Even if the opponent gets a decent amount of mass driver defense the Ripper can overpower it with relative ease. You only need to make sure that your defense is decent against the enemy attacks. (Note that generally the Nanoripper is the best weapon even against mass driver attacks. If you have other weapons that do about 3 damage for every 8 you are doing, then the Nanoripper will do comparable damage if the enemy has 5 armor for every nanoripper you have, then you are dead even, otherwise you come out ahead).

Is it me or is this just wrong? Either each tree needs a weapon like the nanoripper, or this weapon needs to get removed.

Also, it seems like the AI never uses this weapon--even if they have the necessary tech, which is often a fatal mistake.
24,197 views 23 replies
Reply #1 Top
I guess you never played as an evil empire, the psyonic shedder is just a little ways futher down the mass diver line does 10 dmg and takes up the same space as the nano ripper.

If you way out cost, size and damage together the nano ripper is outdone by later graviton techs. I think its there to help mass drivers keep up damage wise.
Reply #2 Top
I think it's powerful but not overpowered.

In terms of cost and size it is only a little more overall than the others. It gets beaten by evil weapons and can be defended against by good defences. I like it where it is but I agree it would be nice to see the other weapons get something like this - an expensive but powerful weapon.
Reply #3 Top
Yeah, seriously, just got far in my evil techs for the first time and got the pyschic beam.. Um yeah... that thing is fricken disgusting in what it does for the space it takes.
Reply #5 Top
If you way out cost, size and damage together the nano ripper is outdone by later graviton techs. I think its there to help mass drivers keep up damage wise.


If you throw in cost, perhaps, but size and damage are the far more important factors. A more expensive ship that does far more damage is worth more than multiple cheaper ships that do less. The former stays alive longer and can make far more lethal fleets since it uses up no more logistic points.

So, imho, cost is a minor issue.

Reply #6 Top
If you throw in cost, perhaps, but size and damage are the far more important factors. A more expensive ship that does far more damage is worth more than multiple cheaper ships that do less. The former stays alive longer and can make far more lethal fleets since it uses up no more logistic points.

So, imho, cost is a minor issue.


I dunno about that - the cost can really add up and start hurting your maintenance and you'll end up having half as many of these ships as of "normal" ones. That's fine if that's what you need, but sometimes more quantity is better than more quality depending on the size of the map etc.
Reply #7 Top
It does seem overpowering where it is on the tech tree, but until you get to Nano Rippers, mass driver weapons are the worst and take more research to get that far.
Reply #8 Top
I think it is a reward for going down the Mass driver tree. Mass Drivers used to be my favorite but since they downgraded the 2 powered mass driver in favor of the 1 power rail guns it has not been a desirable weapon choice over lasers and missiles.
Reply #9 Top
Is it just me or is the beam of the psionic beam weapon invisible?
Reply #12 Top
Yeah yeah thats kinda what I figured. Still kinda a letdown though- hell, if you want to get down to it, there should be no ship sounds either, since sound doesnt travel in space.
Reply #13 Top
to #12
Well, if you want to get down to it, there should only be half the ship sounds. While sound doesn't travel through space, it does travel through your hull after a missile connects. Besides, my espionage level is so high, I've bugged their ships to the point where I can hear the captains' dreams, let alone their sound effects.

to #8
Why would you prefer beams over mass drivers? Missiles seem to have high price, power, and size (great for drengin and military resources). Mass drivers have the lowest costs, and may win the size category, (great for huge fleets of tiney fighters). What do beam weapons have going for them? I haven't filled out the tech tree yet, since I been playing small maps and winning and losing long before I've had a chance to see all the weapons.
Reply #14 Top
Beam weapons have STYLE!
Reply #15 Top
Is it just me or is the beam of the psionic beam weapon invisible?

You have to be of evil alignment to be able to research it.

Personally I think that the nano ripper is at least a little overpowered. It is expensive, yes, but that's not a problem for one of my uber-production planets usually.
Reply #16 Top
It does seem overpowering where it is on the tech tree, but until you get to Nano Rippers, mass driver weapons are the worst and take more research to get that far.


You have a good point there, but it still seems like the most effective strategy for me in my games has been to rush to the Nanoripper (after getting some other early techs), and then never worry about getting or researching weapons ever again. I do research defences, miniaturization, and bigger hulls, but with the Nanoripper it just seems like a flat-out waste of time to bother researching or even trading for other weapons.

I dunno about that - the cost can really add up and start hurting your maintenance and you'll end up having half as many of these ships as of "normal" ones. That's fine if that's what you need, but sometimes more quantity is better than more quality depending on the size of the map etc.


Hmm, is ship maintainance based on ship cost? I thought it was something simpler, but maybe so (never bothered to look at it). Even so, I play on gigantic maps and always have a relatively small fleet. I just make sure they are mobile and that I get Eye of the Universe (which is easy since the AI doesn't go for it). This allows me to have my relatively smaller fleet when and where I need it. Since it is so much more powerful than anything the AI packs (and has defenses against whatever the AI is using), it is pretty easy to take out fleet after fleet of AI ships with little or no losses. Sometimes this requires that I remake fleets and send damaged ones to a planet to repair, but overall it isn't a problem. When attacking my superior speed allows me to move my ships and transports around enemy fleets I don't want to deal with. I usually try to have a coordinated assault on 5+ enemy planets at once, and on an entire empire if I can manage it--this is especially important when finishing off a civ, as then they can't surrender to anyone.

7-9 fleets is all that requires, with appropriate transports in addition. Once I get decent defences I can usually win battles with little or no damage. I have found I enjoy my +50% defense, +50% weapons race quite a lot, since the nano-ripper becomes a 12 damage dealer, and it makes, say, two subspace rebounders give 15 laser defense (so my medium-hull ships have 24 attack and 15 laser defense). I can get this before the AI has even managed to get phasers.

Truly the most annoying this is that the AI doesn't seem to "get" that I am slaughtering their fleets with ease and they lack the speed/power to defeat me. Sure if they could corner a fleet and attack it with 5-6 of their fleets they could take mine down, but since I am choosing the battles (superior speed) this doesn't happen. I am eager to see how the next patch changes this though, when the AI starts to use speed more.

IMHO, quality beats quantity every time. I find I usually don't even need military starbases, my fleets are just so superior to the enemy that I emerge with little or no injury even when fighting on their terms. Btw, this seems to work just 3 difficulty levels down* from the highest setting.

Anyhow, my whole point is, that at least for good, why should you bother doing any more weapons research once you have the nanoripper? And why should you bother ever researching any weapon other than mass drivers (to get the ripper)? I've tried researching some missiles early on for their better offense, but frankly it takes too much time away from getting the Ripper. It seems to me that it must be broken if it is superior to other weapon strategies--and if you need other early weapons you can always trade for them, though if you have the +50% bonus to weapons trait then you can make due with drivers the whole game.

*Or whatever difficulty it is where the intelligence level of the AI doesn't seem to change when you increase the difficulty.
Reply #17 Top
Yes, maintenance is based upon ship costs - you can watch the maintenance go up as you place new components on. I do basically agree that it is a very powerful weapon but I dont think it is so greatly overpowered - for its place in the tree, yes.

I also fully agree that once the AI learns the value of speed, half the things we have all become accustomed to doing will need to be chucked out the window.

I had a game where the Drath put engines on their ships!!! AND they were using large hulls!!! Further to that, we had the event where all speed was increased for all races. In truth, I found that cheap masses of ships worked far better there where they were breaking through frequently and getting the initiative on my ships. Generally, I go with quality over quantity too... but sometimes..... very rarely admittedly but sometimes, it seems better to have a lot of low cost fleets ganging up on enemies. Put it this way, if I'd have equipped enough fleets with 4 nano rippers per ships to maintain my borders then, I would have had to lower spending.

I really really hope that the AI values speed in the next patch just so I, and others, can get a good solid challenge out of the game. At present it is too easy to exploit this key weakness in their ship designs.
Reply #18 Top
The big downside of nanorippers is there price. In my last game had I a custom race with 30% economy and the federalistic party(+20% economy) yet was I unable to pay the ship mainetance at 100% industrial output. It could have to do that there was no trade(I was in war with everyone so there was no trade). But I also noticed that my enemies both produces 4 times as many ships then I and even the nanorippers couldn't stop that.

Wars are wars between economies. If my nanoripper ships kills on average 3 enemies before they die but the price of those 3 is lower then the price of my nanoripper then am I losing unless my economy is much bigger then theirs.
Reply #19 Top
Drachasor , I am often in the same boat -though I don't choose +defense and +weapons for my custom races-. One contributing factor that you seemed to miss is the fact that your ships get better and better as they defeat enemy ships, thus leading to a rather nasty snowball effect.

As far as speed goes, how exactly is it that you guys are thinking its gonna help? In terms of the AI reacting to your superior ships by zipping in and smothering them? In terms of retaliation?

If its the latter (and thats the impression I got from one poster) then that just shifts more (admittedly well deserved) focus onto sensors.
Reply #20 Top
As far as speed goes, how exactly is it that you guys are thinking its gonna help? In terms of the AI reacting to your superior ships by zipping in and smothering them? In terms of retaliation?

If its the latter (and thats the impression I got from one poster) then that just shifts more (admittedly well deserved) focus onto sensors.


Currently, if they attack you with let's say 5 fleets of relatively similar powered ships to yours and you are defending with 1 fleet and a starbase bonus. Let's say that with that bonus you can kill 3 of his fleets before your ships are badly damaged and need repairs or to be swapped out.

What happens at the moment is the AI moves in at 2 squares per turn so you sit back and let him come to your bases influence always guaranteeing that the next fleet cannot attack you on his turn. This is easy to do when it moves 2 squares per turn, but if it was moving 10 squares per turn, you would probably not be able to move in to attack, move back out of its radius and rinse and repeat. Even if you could move out of its radius, it's entirely possible that the next wave will bring in either too many for you to deal with on your next turn or would move into attacking your planet or base.

Basically, the idea is that it has more tactical scope.

If you want to insist that this isnt true, then just for laughs next game dont research *any* engine techs and leave all your ships with only standard movement to match the AI.

Currently, the player has an overwhelming advantage in all aspects of battle due, quite simply, to speed.

Sensors help spot them coming in - definitely agree there.... but if the AI attacks you en masse in a weak point, all they do is give you an advance warning..... again, if your reinforcement fleets were limited to 2 moves per turn, you probably wouldnt get the reinforcements in place soon enough.

Do you see where I am coming from here?

An AI that appreciates and uses speed will severly cut back the advantage of the human player as it stands at the moment.
Reply #21 Top
If the AI has more speed he can zip around your defense fleets and take your your bases directly, also.

Or, do what I did and build turbo-speed combat transports (moved 17 parsecs/turn), then flat out invade the planet while ignoring the defending fleet, which can only move 5 parsecs/turn.
Reply #22 Top
Is it just me or is the beam of the psionic beam weapon invisible?


There is actually an effeft on the psionic beam, but its small and doesn't extend much past the beam housing placed on your ship. Its probably the most underwhelming effect I've seen, which is sad since I use it so often.
Reply #23 Top
There is actually an effeft on the psionic beam, but its small and doesn't extend much past the beam housing placed on your ship. Its probably the most underwhelming effect I've seen, which is sad since I use it so often.

I have never seen any effect and I have been using them alot.

If you take a look in Gfx\Weapons\ you will notice that WFX_PsyonicBeam01.X is missing it's .png-file which all other functioning weapon-effects have.