The stupidity of Galciv "democracy"

Really, if another party becomes the ruling party you technically shouldn't be able to be ruler any longer...

In any case, your proposal removes the largest reason to watch your empire's approval. You could just tick everyone off, and you'd just get a new party next election. Sounds too easy.

Consumed Crustacean (strange name) got a point there. But maybe, indeed, there should be some in-game limits according to your party. After all, how could a Technologist party reduce its research below 25%?

Or a Pacifist party leader declare war?

or a Mercantile party leader leave U.P.?

More I'd say - it's strange and weird that democracy/federation coincidered as "advanced" forms of goverment. Why not implement standart approach - change some tech names and add some bonuses to Imperial form. Otherwise it seems stupid to research techs if you are not going to change goverment. As if for +5 bonus-_-.
As well as option that if your approval rating would be low there are chance that forced random goverment change can happen(and you are unable to change it back for a while). That at least would make Approval somehow important - I still fail to see it's usefulness other than invasion, tax change and popgrowths stop/boom.
As well as option that if some civ got significant influence over your civ they add some to govt change chance if app is low(and goverment can be shifted to one that influental race empathise)

It would be cool to rig the elections as well!

t would be cool to rig the elections as well!

hehehe
that should be especially worriesome for the Terran Alliance

Consumed Crustacean: Really, if another party becomes the ruling party you technically shouldn't be able to be ruler any longer...

Nah. Where'd you get that idea? Bill Clinton wasn't castrated (to the regret of his wife) by the republican majority. The key is to be a convenient scapegoat for the ruling party, but not enough of a threat to herald a civil war.

Evil civilizations don't merely have people assume the identities of the deceased and vote in the elections, they literally reanimate the corpses and have them vote in the election.

Maybe each party could have:

- A greater Power, which you only have if it is your party.

- A minor Power, which everyone have, no matter if it is your party or not.

- A flaw, which everyone have.


See, the minor and the flaw could be equal (or the minor better than the flaw?), I think the diversity would bring some depth and fun.

The Minor and the Greater can be the same, it is just getting twice the stats if it is your party.


Alternatively, if Stardock is motivated, when you lose an election maybe the AI take over some aspect of the game until next election, not that many, but enough to annoy the player (like controlling the spending and % in each section). Hehe.

An idea:

What if, when, say, the pacifist party gets elected instead of you, you get the pacifist party bonus BUT all your other area (ALL OF THEM) suffer by say 5 to 10% due to "inefficiency" in the government.

I always thought that in GalCiv 1 when you were out of power, then your bonuses were applied as a penalty. I don't know if that ever was the system, but it sure made sense to me when I thought it was the way.

Applying the other partys' bonuses as a penalty is, at the very least, counter-intuitive. It makes little sense for the war party's ascension to mean all of your warships are now amazingly more terrible.

If your own party's bonus is applied as a penatly though, it does make sense when, say, the Technolgists lose control that the new ruling party runs things in such a way as to work as much to wreck the Technologist agenda completely as to further their own (much like real politicking).

So when you're in control you get your bonus.

When you lose control you get your bonus taken away TWICE. That is a good healthy penalty, will likely undermine the strategy you're working on, and makes sense when you think about it.

What I have more complain about is the government (imperial, repubilc, democracy, and federation). By no means would one provide more bonus to the other one. They should provide different types of bonus like the party, at least in certain cases.

This sounds like I want to have civ government (differnet bonus and penalty ) or MoO2 government (different type, upgradeable) in the game instead.

It might be something worth considering for the devs though. Communism might just work splendid for an alien race, especially the hive minds.

In Soviet Toria, frogs lick you!

The philosophy is actually pretty straightforward. You are the chief executive. The Senate is merely the legislative branch. Losing control of the legislature doesn't oust the executive. When an opposing party wins the election, they fight you tooth and nail on every issue that they care about. Technologists want research to go in a different direction. The War Party supports peace when you are at war and war when you are at peace. Just like when Orrin Hatch opposed action against Iraq during the Clinton administration but not during the Bush one. Politics is not about moving the country forward; it's about fighting for the sake of fighting. That's why the bonuses are applied as penalties.

What I have more complain about is the government (imperial, repubilc, democracy, and federation). By no means would one provide more bonus to the other one. They should provide different types of bonus like the party, at least in certain cases.

The governements in gal civ are not ideologically different from one another, it's just a varying degree of freedom given by the mother planet to it's colonies. More freedom means more economic growth, but also it means that the concept of independance is more common.

Not that it matters. I've never had a planet break away from me without an event, especially since they took destabilizing out.

I think it's stupid for GalCiv to have democracy at all. How do you expect to sell the game in China?

Space is not a finite area with "walls" that you cannot pass beyond, on a 2D plane. In fact, it is very much the exact OPPOSITE of that concept. But its represented in that over simplified manner in this "game" for the sake of fun and streamlined gameplay, and that applies to governments and any number of concepts in this game, or any other.

The only thing "stupid" here is the making of forum threads with inflamatory titles, because this bit of common sense in game design that most people take for granted somehow offends you in this instance.

This game isn't a polictical game. If your party gets voted out techincally the game should end!!! (That wouldn't be a very fun space empire game!!!)

If you want to play a relatistic political game, play Prime Minister Forever.

(Stardock makes one called the Political Machine, though I haven't personally played it personally.)

Insightful


Really, if another party becomes the ruling party you technically shouldn't be able to be ruler any longer...

In any case, your proposal removes the largest reason to watch your empire's approval. You could just tick everyone off, and you'd just get a new party next election. Sounds too easy.

That's why I propose that the party abilities, strengths and weaknesses be made more potent, so that you're party really does affect the strategy you have to adopt. For instance if you were trying to win a technological victory and the industrialists win, then that strategy is somewhat wrecked beacause of industrialist research penalties (see below).

If you lose the election, you are assumed to "become" the ruler of the new one, beacause you aren't a specific individual, but the whole civilization. The character you created could be some kind of figure-head president in adition to the ruler of you're starting party hence he would be allowed to carry on, but without holding real power. Alternatively we could have a database of new leaders for each civ, so when a leader of any civilization is elected out of power, a new one with a new name is generated.

Now I've put some thought into the strengths and weaknesses of each party and come up with the following. Come to think about it, maybe the aquisition of party bonuses and penalties should be gradual, beacause it takes time for talk to translate into reality.

War Party.
The War Party believes in the folly and tempory nature of peace and works for the militerization of society in order to defend against and ultimately conquer the societies enemies, either those who do not aspire to the correct ethical alignment or everyone who stands in the way of the societies power. As a result they encourage a high degree of militery expertise in their fleets and abnormally large crews, which allows for those ships to continue to function when a less well-manned ship would be scrap metal. They also encourage the same expertise on the ground aswell, and recieve bonuses to their performance in a planetery invasion. However the brutish nature of the War Party and it's lack of patience for diplomacy, hurts their ability to interact with other civilizations and the vibrancy of their own culture.

Hit Points +25%
Weapons +20%
Defense +10%
Soldiering+25%
Influence -15%
Diplomacy -35%

Federalists
The Federalists believe in local autonomy and believe each planet and even regions within planets should decide on their own affairs without central interferance. This has a positive effect on the economic well-bieng of the civilization beacause it avoids large and expensive buerocracies, however the ability of planets to put their own well-bieng above the interests of the entire civilization tends to erode the concept of unity and federalists have a problem dealing with disloyal elements and with dealing with foreign influnce, as federalists tend to be sypathetic to such groups and may even consider it legitimate to defect to other civilizations, if the majority of electorate within a given area desires too. Federalists tend to be soft on dissent generally and the self-interest of federalist planets tends to lead to a poor reception for controversial goverment measures means morale suffers.

Economics- +40%
Loyalty- -20%
Morale- -10%

Industrialists
Industrialists believe in maximizing the manufacturing base and producing large quantities of products, in there view it is far more valuable to focus efforts on educating the population in engineering and practical pursuits, rather than creating armies of intellectuals and scientists who do not produce but only consume. There is no problem that maximizing production cannot solve according to Industrialists. Due to the industrialists focus on expansion, they recieve a bonus to the capacity at producing new things, both on the ground and in space and also when repairing damaged ships, however the anti-intellectual bias of Industrialists damages their research and creativity ability, for industrialists have little patience for intellectual speculation.

Militery Production- +30
Social Production- +30
Repair- +25%
Research- -30%
Creativity- -40%

Mercantile
Mercantilists believe in trading with other civilizations and focus of studying market forces within other civilizations and want they want and gearing production to this. As a result the amount of money they make from trading with other civilizations is increased and they encourage a high trade rate, giving them an extra trade route. This also has the unforseen advantage, in that it improves espionage beacause of the experiance they obtain about alien ways and customs. However some local producers do not like competing with foreign imports, which hurts morale and more crucially, the exposure to foreign ideas and products makes them vulnrable to foreign culture and to defection.

Trade- +25%
Trade routes- +1
Espionage- +20%
Morale- -15%
Loyalty- -25%

Pacifists
Pacifists hate war and conflict and dream of a galaxy of eternal peace and co-operation between all races. They believe all races are capable of peace, even the Drengin and Yor and focus a great deal on diplomacy rather than on force to achieve. Basicly the Pacifist diplomatic dogma is, we try to look fairly harmless and as a result aliens will not see us as a threat and will trade with us on a more even basis. Then we will be able to make friends and spread the influence of peace throughout the galaxy. As a result pacifists gain great bonuses to their diplomacy and influence, however their low opinion of force means that their militery suffers and militery professionalism is poor. However due to the fact the pacifists warriors believe strongly in the justness of any war they are forced to fight (beacause obviously they did nothing to deserve bieng attacked), they gain a courage bonus.

Hit Points -25%
Weapons -20%
Soldiering -20%
Influence- +30%
Diplomacy- +40%
Courage- +25%

Populists
The populists believe in democracy and that the goverments job is to serve the people, not the other way round. As a result the people feel their views a appreciated, but this is probably more beacause of the populists mastery of propaganda. This has a positive effect to a lesser extent on their cultural efforts, beacause the abilities learned by the populists in manipulating public opinion, can very easily be put in to practice in spreading their culture. However they tend not to be overly prudent with money, beacause much of it is lost on welfare programs and the ilk which the people demand, however this does increase population growth somewhat.

Morale- +30%
Influence- +20
Population growth- +10
Economics- -20%


Technologists
The technologists believe fervantly in technological progress and it's benign nature as a result they support scientific research even if it has no obvious purpose, afterall knowledge is quasi-sacred to a technologist. Beacause of this their creativity and research ability is increased. However the technologists are at heart intellectuals and have little experiance of actually making things on a large scale, which means production suffers.

Research- +40%
Creativity+ 25%
Militery production- -20%
Social production- -20%

Universialists
Universalists believe that focusing too much on one particular area is folly and that a balanced approach should be adopted in all areas. No overall advantage is gained for having the universalists in charge, but no penalties either.

No effect.

*sigh*

As has been mentioned, the penalty is added primarily for gameplay. There is no real reason to keep your populace happy with you if the penalties are not in place. Now that approval rating becomes extremely important.

Secondly, you can justify the penalty by simply observing what happens in real democracies. In the US if the houses are a different party than the President things tend to run pretty inefficiently.

Ermm, how about not annoying your voters in the first place? It's really not that difficult, you know. Just don't over-populate by restricting your farms are even decommission farms on planets that have a bad approval rating, and be careful with your taxes, and that's it. And there are alot of ways to get 60%-70% tax rate in the late-game and get above 90% approval ratings, I've done them myself at normal difficulty level. I even watched as the people on the street said my 65% tax rate is fair and that he loves leaving in my empire! Fair?! I would demand a free Porche from the government before I'd consider 65% tax rate to be fair. On GalCiv1 it was alot more difficult to keep the peace.

I think you're just over-reacting here, dude.

Really, if another party becomes the ruling party you technically shouldn't be able to be ruler any longer...

You keep saying this. I'd love to see the reasoning behind this. Last I checked just because a house (parliment) or legislature (representative democracy) change party majorities doesn't mean the executive is automatically removed.

You keep saying this. I'd love to see the reasoning behind this. Last I checked just because a house (parliment) or legislature (representative democracy) change party majorities doesn't mean the executive is automatically removed

That's right. But this is a turn-based strategy game. It rewards good gameplay, and "punishes" bad gameplay. Your citizen's moral is a major aspect of the game, you can't just ignore it like that. That being said, I think its safe to say that this won't change in the near future, so just accept it, relax, and enjoy what the game has to offer.

Imperial government to a republic government and the mass votes for another party. I don't know about you, but I don't think the mass will want the same emperor ruling after they finally changed to republic.

Even if the people won't kick you off.. I would think you get voted off the executive position when it's time to vote for executive officers.

Perhaps the game should have a voting for the executive officer. When you lose that election, it's automatically game over

But only for you, the aliens continue under another leader.

Why would you be taken away from your position as leader, besides who do you think the people woudld rather have leading their empire, the guy that united them and lead them into space (you), or a stupid little brat or senate wanting your power.