Techtrading the bane of a good game.

I've been adding in credits to all my trade deals until the deal turns red, then back off until it is green again. I figure I'm getting the most that can be expected that way.

But yes, some relative value attached to techs on this screen would be most welcome.

Yes, I've noticed that various Civs value the techs differently. In fact, I think it might even be related to the ammount of money they have total, as the Secondary Civs that come in with 5000 will give me most of that if I sell them my techs 1 or 2 at a time.

If not value, it would be good to have at least some idea about the general tech level (it's easy to compare laser III with minball II, but harder with Xeno farming for exemple)

By knowing "it's a level X tech", even if the exact cost in research point is unknow, it would be easier to trade them.

The tech trading is actually one of my favorite parts of this game. It is so much easier to do than in Civilization. The trades with the computer are much more realistic in my oppinion, which is why I like it so much.

I agreewith Stuie_acs, it would be helpful if a bubble would pop up and show you the number of research points a tech took. I think you can right click on them to get some information though.

Otherwise the best way is to adjust money and influence to see exactly how valuable what your trading is. However, as you play the game more you learn how valuable different techs and what you should trade/ask for them.

Also, I think it would be helpful if there were a button that would set the quantity of money to the maximum that a civilization will trade for a technology when trading.

In my last game (normal, large, abundant across the board) I ended up grabbing a lot of good planets early and got off to a tech and industrial lead that put me in the driver's seat. My income lagged far behind and I was running massive deficits throughout. I was able to offset this by trading techs constantly because the AI civs were running large surpluses. Had they put their resources into researching and building themselves up they might have had a chance. As it was, I was selling them things that they mostly didn't use as they passively sat while I took them out one by one, continually fueling my war machine with their surpluses. I'm going to turn up the difficulty a bit, but I think even on Normal the AI has got to be more proactive about developing their own solutions rather than just funding the player's efforts to destroy them. Had they spent their money and cut me off I would have had to be much more creative/strategic in forging my galactic empire.

In contrast (Beginner, gigantic, Tight Clusters and Abundant all over), I am running large amounts of creds ahead (I heart Star Federation). So I just bribe anyone and everyone to give me techs in branches I'm not researching myself. In this way I am able to spread myself evenly on the tech tree. I plan on just buying my ships when I am really rich and I have the "ultimate" design. Though the difficulty IS on beginner due to my first time playing Gal Civ. Still, due to my great monetary resources I can buy a galactic wonder outright and within two weeks I can be back to green. I disabled all victory conditions except conquest. And of course my 60% natural research advantage probably helps.

It's easy guys... what "generation of that tech" is it? Laser II or Laser V? How long in general did it take you to research it? A little-bit or a lotta-bit?

Things like these give you relative values to the techs. Here's a few that the AI really likes:

Trade, Advanced Trade, Alliances, Governmental Research, Research Related Research, Factory Improvements, Economical Improvements, Habitat Improvements.

Get it? Any tech there is, the AI wants, and so should you. It's not difficult to get a good trade, and I often request credits along with the AI's tech because mine are worth more and I know it.

It's easy guys... what "generation of that tech" is it? Laser II or Laser V? How long in general did it take you to research it? A little-bit or a lotta-bit? Get it? Any tech there is, the AI wants, and so should you. It's not difficult to get a good trade, and I often request credits along with the AI's tech because mine are worth more and I know it.

No need to be condescending. Not everyone has a photographic memory. Monikers for weapons are easy to follow, but other techs' prerequisites are not as easy to remember.

The more info the better in strategy games, IMHO. They could simply add research values ala Civilization...or maybe assign a point system.

You can always click on a tech to see what it does

exterous sez:

You can always click on a tech to see what it does

True, you can right-click on a tech in the diplomacy window to see a list of its benefits.

What you can't do is right-click the items in the tech description to see what the heck they're useful for. You also can't see how many RP it costs to research a tech by mousing over it. Civ4 has spoiled me; I find myself really missing the ability to do those things (though I should add that I still have more fun playing GC2 than Civ4 despite this).

I don't think it's really that easy to say "tech X is worth Y". Things to consider:

-Laser III is going to be worth much more to someone without any Laser tech than it is to someone with no Laser tech
-Laser III isn't going to be worth as much to someone who's way up the tech ladder in missiles and has no current need to change.
-Terraforming isn't worth much to a guy with one mostly empty planet, but someone with 5 fullish planets would value it more.
-How much do you show a tech as being worth? The total research to get it? Just the research for that item above it's predecessor? The amount that AI player would have to reseach to get from his level to yours?
-The AI's tech capacity has got to figure into it too. A research-heavy AI player with 20 research bases isn't going to get much from you that he can't get quickly himself, but someone with little research capacity might be willing to pay over the odds.
-Effects of diplomacy levels, current relationships, alignments, bonuses, etc. have an effect....

I don't think any figure for a tech other than "how much the other guy is willing to pay/sell for at this moment" would make sense, and then it'd differ for each person you talked to.

That's the point, though. My foreign minister should have done the prep work to figure out how this other race values trades. I expect the AI to value techs situationally, and I expect each race to be different. I want to know what that valuation is so I can get a fair trade.

What makes this difficult is the fact that the contents of an individual trade may change the value of these techs. Let's say the AI has Laser IV, and I have Advanced Deflectors. They have no shield tech. They shouldn't be stupid enough to trade me Laser IV, unless I'm offering Advanced Deflectors, since that will give them the ability to counter the fact that I now have better lasers.

The question is, how does the AI value trades? Does the AI look at the relative positions of the two races before and after the trade? That's how it SHOULD be looked at, but I don't know how sophisticated the AI is in this area.

Yes, the lasers/shields example there is another reason why (if the trading AI is smart enough) you can't really say what a tech is worth, since in theory it can change depending on what else is or isn't on the table.

I think what might work, and might be enough for us is to give us a button to press that does to the effect of "given what we have suggested for trade with the AI, what is the money they want to pay/be paid in addition", with an option to put that amount of money/influence on the table too.

I'm not being condescending. There is no definitive value, it's all what you and the AI deem it to be. So develop a system in your mind on how to categorize the value of a tech. My mind is far from photographic in nature.

I'm dead serious when I say it's easy, because there is no absolute value, it's between you and the AI.

You know, whenever I click on a tech to find out what it's good for, it lists the ship improvements, but everything else is pretty much blank. Prerequisites and Follow-ups.. From the info click, I can't guess the value because I don't know where it is on the tech tree.

You will know which tech is good after playing for a while.
I agree that the current way of presenting the info is not optimal, but it's not that bad either.

Value also depends on your current situation.
In my current game I have a 700% manufacturing bonus on my home planet.
I have run out of tiles to quickly build a galactic wonder that would permanently protect my trade ships through the whole game(privateer),meaning I could hammer other races trades to weaken them without fear of reprisal on my own freighters.But researching it would take 39 weeks of research,unless I unbalanced my spending practices.
So how much is that habitat improvement bonus worth that would only take me 7 weeks to build in order to free up the space and make sure I get that wonder?Quite a bit if trade is one of your overall strategies for winning the game.