VR on-line still be banned (replay inside)

Oh and while if you are in eco slot. Yes you need a bit more research but to get them up and running you actually need 2 less labs if you count trade into equation. 

Also I would like to point out that Greg isn't in anyway rushing this. He is killing his opponent and manage to get it up before the enemy team is fielding titans.

And the dmg Debuff isn't even noticeable. Before the game ends Greg jumps in a Sb in Slayers Gravitywell, sits out the debuff and then attacks.

This is from another thread....

But I am asking devs

Does engine even support 2 different SB upgrades for Vasari race meaning VL keep population upgrades since they need them (lore wise) because they are destroying planets and VR sacrifice population slots for mobility.

Another question for devs would be is it possible to tie building upgrade in this case SB upgrade to fleet supply cost?

Yes and no...you can't have 2 upgrades or 2 abilities share one slot on an entity, and all the ability and upgrades slots are filled on the Orky....

That being said, it's a pretty simple fix...just make 2 SB entities, one for VL and one for VR...they could be identical in everyway except for one ability or upgrade that would be different...this is 100% doable with the current engine...and actually, some proposed solutions (such as requiring a 2nd level of stabilize phase space) wouldn't even require that....

I think requiring fleet supply is the wrong approach....I'd much rather make it more difficult to get an SB to a gravity well (ex: it must be friendly, it must have phase node, the SB gets debuffs after exiting phase space, etc) or require individual SBs to make sacrifices other than fleet supply in order to jump (ex: they require 1 or more special SB upgrades in order to phase jump)...

Technically I suppose you could make them cost fleet supply via modding...you could have the 5th slot passive ability (unlocked via starbase mobilization) spawn a "frigate" with x fleet supply...the frigate could be made invulnerable, and set to kill itself if the SB dies...not a clean way of doing it though...

But that still enables you to field defensive structures that can phase jump from gravity to gravity well that are very hard to kill and cost 0 fleet supply. You could defend yourself and 4 of your allies with 5 or 6 of them and focus your fleet that takes fleet supply to attack completely oblivious as to where enemy fleet is. 

I'm in agreement here and part of the reason is that I don't think fleet supply will be as much of a disadvantage as people are assuming.  The problem is that for every other "ship", you can't start building it until you have available fleet supply.  If you don't have fleet supply available, the ship waits in the queue until fleet supply becomes available.  With an Orkie that requires fleet supply to jump (I'm assuming that it is an upgrade that allows it to jump), you can construct it on your front line and make it combat ready before you research its fleet supply.  This is a big advantage.

So let's assume you are a VR in the econ spot.  You want to push 4 Orkies - 1 each to support your teammates on your immediate right and left, 1 to push up the middle, and the 4th as a reserve.  You build the colony ships, send them to the front lines and begin building each starbase.  You complete each Orkie to 7 levels (assuming the 8th is the jump upgrade).  This takes a considerable amount of time, time in which you still don't have fleet supply penalities.  When you are ready to attack, you then bump up the fleet supply and upgrade the Orkie.  You still get most of the economic benefit that you have now because you can delay the fleet upgrades while the Orkies build.

What makes this effective is that the building Orkies are playing a valuable role even before they are jump capable.  They are helping to defend key choke points for your team.  They are projecting military power and have the potential to attack later on.

That is why you limit the amount of these orkies that can become jump capable by also requiring jump capable orkies to require capital ship crews.

Perhaps every time an orkulus jumps it also loses all its shields and antimatter, and passive regeneration for 60 seconds, and is unable to move for that time period, and it won't hurt enemy hull points/antimatter if the opponent retreats during this time.

So acquire yourself like 10 of them. Why would you choose a capital ship (excpet a Titan) when you can have more Orkies? The biggest issue is the huge jump in combat power compared to pretty much everything else except a Titan.

I am strongly against jumping orkies requiring capital ship crews...for one, you still can get 5+ Orkies easily, so that doesn't really prevent an eco player from assisting allies or making a push forward...but it also doesn't do anything to make the jumping orky weaker....

Something needs to make any jumping orky weaker...1 upgrade won't do it, it would have to bee at least 2...a penalty buff upon exiting phase jump ain't a bad idea either....honestly, simply disabling engines for a couple minutes would go a long long way....

a lot of nice ideas here....my english is bad and its late at night,excuse me for an ugly post.

For survival purposes,making defence hubs that are just not worth to be rushed without preparations - is a very effective measure.Starbases of all races are meant to be those hubs.Now, in the Rebellion one of the hubs gained ability to move itself into enemy territory,which is brilliant from strategy point of view....but totally ridiculous when you consider balance of races powers.

Orkie should be either considered a defensive measure and used as one - which means nerfing its ability to advance into the enemy territory (lets not touch the "sneaky sb constructor tactic",its a fine exception from rules),

Or reconsidered as a part of Vasari fleet - which means nerfing its combat values or adding supply costs or reducing combat upgrades available or whatever...... (treat it as a mini titan)

There are 2 main problems with jumping orkies:

1.at early game,the advancing orkie (even if it has just 4 upgrades) can annihilate any frigate fleet - that leaves the opponent with very few ways to deal with it,and none of them are cost effective (even siege cruisers are a soft counter,on practice a slightly upgraded orkie can destroy them before they deal decent amount of damage) .

2.mid to late game VR's economy allows him to field a dozen of SB's and chain launch them at the opponent...one after another....a fight he cannot lose.

Solution to the first could be nerfing Orkie ability to advance into enemy territory,for example: allowing a sb to phasejump only into a grav well with an active friendly phasegate.

Solution the second could be simple crippling its combat value by reducing the number of combat upgrades (1 phase gate + 1 phase jump + 6 combat) as already proposed by others.......