I've been playing almost exclusively as TEC and I use the light carriers all the time... I try to keep my fleets with around 8-12 squadrons of fighters/bombers at least, and then see that number increase as my fleet carriers level up.

I would like to see 2 squadrons per carrier, though. Maybe start the fleet carrier with 3 squadrons as well.

i think the carriers should be able to level and add squdrons with the leveling

they are powerful as they are. Think of this, compare them to upgraded cap sized carrier that has 4 squadrons. I can easily field 2 times the squadrons with cruiser sized carriers. And because they are just sit behind, they very rarely get attacked. I love using them in planetary defense. They just sit right where my hangars are, behind the planet covered by repair building and serve up the pain Hangars set for planetary defenses with 10 cruiser sized carriers will easily destroy pirate raids and if you add couple strong tanking cap ships to this mix, they will be able to easily hold back the enemy while your reinforcements join.

One time they suck is prolonged fights because their squadrons slowly get shot down and get weaker and they don't build them fast enough. So i don't normally use them for offense. Maybe for initial strike to break up the defense of the enemy which full squadrons.

Something with an area of effect around the cruiser that boosts bomber/fighter damage? That would force it to be near the front.

Playing as the Advent I had my entire fleet made up of carriers and cap ships. 250 squads of fighters and bombers overwhelms most fleets, even those with sizeable anti-fighter defences.

But usually I only create a modest amount of strike craft and these are usually used for attacking retreating forces or the small frigates that outrun my larger ships.

wow I've never seen 250 squads, seen over 90, but never 250. must be quite nice to zoom in and see them kill a cap in one run.

That's a problem I was having the other night (mass carrier spam) - any suggestions as to how many flaks per carrier is a good rule of thumb for countering those large fleets (the AI was sending about 70 carriers with 60-70 light frigates for support) - also how about the usefulness of LRMs in that situation. I way underestimated and was cut to ribbons in pretty short order.

I'd say at least 1 to 10 -- probably higher, but I tend to use fighters for strike craft defense rather than flaks (though I will station 2-3 flaks on border worlds that are getting attacking by carrier / flak heavy opponents).

Carriers are almost useless as Vasari (compared to other races). Not only do they get much fewer squadrons than other races, but theier squadron size is much smaller. My brother plays as Advent and his squadrons are 9-10 ships in size. Vasari squadrons are a pitiful 3 (for bombers anyway). They do have some good damage and are still quite effective though. Maybe I'm missing something as to why the Vasari squads are so much smaller. If I'm missing something can someone please explain. Thanks.

It's not a be all or end all winning strategy, it's just one way to supplement their forces. If they have no flak frigates, bring 5-6 light carriers along, since the enemy's fleet won't be able to shoot them down without chasing down the host carriers.

Don't look for "ultimate weapon" ships, this is not the game for that. There aren't many ships you can just field and expect to be more powerful, composition is key. If you're Vasari and they have good fighter defenses than yes, your carriers are useless. If they can't defend against it, though, a quick swarm of fighters and bombers adds a signifigant edge to the rest of your assault.

The following is from the game data files:

Vasari unupgraded bombers have 5 armor, 140 hulls, do 76 damage per volley(13.5 seconds), and have a cap of 3 per squad. Construction time is 30 seconds.

Advent unupgraded bombers have 1 armor, 75 hulls, do 34 damage per volley(13.5 seconds), and have a cap of 7 per squad. Construction time is 18 seconds.

...as you can see, a full Vasari bomber squad is only SLIGHTLY weaker than the Advents. The trade off is that the Vasari only needs 90 seconds to go from 0 bombers to full. Advent requires 126 seconds. That means Advent fighter carriers gets punished much more against anti-fighter frigates than the Vasari equivelent.

The Vasari capital carrier is sweet, but I am indifferent about the cruiser carriers. They are nice if someone is trying to LRM spam you, because you can just swarm them with Fighters.

I use them basically as the backbones of my fleets. I play TEC mainly, and carrier cruisers are a superb complement to my capital ships imo. Combine that with some close combat ships and you have a destructive force to be reckoned with.

The thing that really makes them worth it, imo, is that the fighters have much faster speeds and ranges than other ships, so they can quickly attack and destroy targets, even those that are fleeing from your fleet.

That brings back some fond memories of before the cap limit. I had fleets of 75 lvl 5 sovas, and you should have seen the carnage I inflicted on the AI. I still like fighters, but I'm a bit more fond of advent long range ships right now, even though when a cap absolutely, positively has to be sniped, there's nothing like a bunch of fighters.

Upgraded, the Vasari strike forces would be more powerful despite being outnumbered 12 vs 35.

The Capital Carriers would be able to teleport strikecraft, make them temporarily invincible, cut down the time required for each volley, and repair damaged craft. The strikecraft themselves would be armed with Phase Missiles on both Fighters and Bombers, so they would be able to cut through shields while Advent strikecraft would have no such ability. The Advent Rapture Battlecruiser could help out with Concentration Aura, but AFAIK, that ability only gives their strikecraft an attack damage boost.

advent bombers use beams, so do many of their cap ships and other ships, which benefit from the beam damage and range upgrades.
Also the carrier has an aura that makes beams(all energy weapons i think?) refire faster. AND the carrier also uses powerful beams.
This is why I love Advent.. things work so well together.


But Vasari carriers are also good because both fighters AND bombers get upgrade from the missiles. With Advent.. you're best off going purely bombers IMO. With the laser upgrades i think they kill lightarmors just as fast as fighters do, or it's close enough to not matter and not sacrifice cap and cruiser damage for.
Tec fighters/bombers though.. i dunno.

The best thing about bombers though is that so far i've only seen one person ever made anti-fighter frigs in an online match.

If you're jonesing for a carrier heavy strategy, you may be tempted to play Advent. I would advise against it. If you really want to put some hurt on an enemy, play as TEC.

Go for a very carrier heavy strategy. More importantly, let your enemy KNOW you're doing it. Let them build Flak to their heart's content. Then make 2 or 3 of the Carrier Cap Ships for the TEC (the name escapes me), buy a few upgrade levels/put them in a few battles, and then during your big assault use the Manufacturing ability that they have. For the duration of the ability, ALL SQUADRONS in the system are built INSTANTLY. This is a wonderful thing. If you squadrons get shredded from flak after they do a run on a cap ship, your next wave will pop out in moments. Then the next, and the next. Chain these abilities between a few of the cap ships, and you're talking about a very powerful ability.

Another use for that cap ship is one I employed while playing against a friend of mine. He saw that I was building bombers almost exclusively, so he built hangars and carriers in his own frontline system (playing Advent) and sent out 25 or so squadrons of Fighters. As soon as I saw them launch I activated the instant build, grabbed my entire fleet, right clicked the bombers into oblivion and queued up 30 or so of my own fighter squads. Combined with my Battlecruiser's Flak ability, I tore his defense to pieces in moments, scuttled half the fighters and sent out bombers, and wiped out most of his armada before it could jump.

Squadrons rule.

-Eric the Mad-

I haven't really seen much on the Anti-Fight Escort counter, so I'll chime in.

I find myself using carriers heavily in the late game - they are by far the best tool against planetary defenses (none of them can even target strike force ships). Every carrier heavy fleet also gets a small squadron of the Long Range Assault frigates (Illuminators/LRM/etc). I sic the long range frigates on the anti fighter escorts at the very beginning. After they've been taken out, my strike force ships have free reign.

The Advent are crazy about Beam and Laser weaponry. Everything uses them. Similarly, the Vasari are crazy about Phase Missile weapon systems. They use them on cap-ships(Vulkoras Desolator), assault frigates(Assailant), cruisers(Subverter), bombers, fighters, defensive turrets, etc.

So now, what's youre strategy for getting 3 sova's to lvl 6 before your first attack on someone?

Tecs fighters/bombers are the worst, simple as that.
I'd call Vasari and Advents tied. Advent have tons and tons of sqauds for their caps. Many get a squad at level 1, the carrier has 5 or 6 at level 7 or 8 i think, which is freaking insane. One long game with my 4 caps (mothership, the first one in the list with all the beams, and 2 carriers) I had something like 15 or 16 squadrans JUST on the caps. Also, despite Advents ships generally costing a ton of crystal, their carrier cruisers only cost 50! Almost half the other races! So basically you can make twice as many with all that excess metal you tend to have.

Vasari, on the other hand.. Theres have much more HP so are less subjective to AOE abilities, or simply dying before firing, AND a big thing is that their missile upgrades upgrade both fighters AND bombers. With advent you find yourself typically going all bombers, while with Vasari you're more free to mix it up.

Some food for thought

TEC has the most focus on hull of all 3 races, and they have the best armor tech. Advent and Vasari are more likely to put resources into shield techs, which don't benefit strikecraft at all.

Vasari fighters get no damage upgrades at all until NME warheads, which only goes up to 20%. The phase shield skips arn't very useful unless you go Subverters, or in support of Evacuators. (Ideally both.)

TEC gets antimatter restoration in culture, which is awesomely useful for light carriers. Advent get their antimatter caster, but it's rarely used; I don't even know if it works on frigates.

Perchirons are the toughest light carrier by a larger-than-usual margin.

Eh?.. Tecs armor tech only increases .5 per level. The other races techs give 1 or more per level..

The others seem more cost effective to me, unless i'm missing something. In the end, after all that money spent, I think they only give 1 more armor or something.

Also don't Advent have the best AM upgrades?.. Or the cheapest at least. And their carriers cost far less crystal, which is crucial in comparing them.

The Vasari are most likely to research up the Phase Missiles, Waves, Armor, Hulls, and Antimatter tech lines.

The Advent are most likely to research up the Lasers, Beams, Shields, Hulls and Antimatter tech lines.

The TEC would research up the Autocannons, Missiles, Armor, Hulls, and Shields tech lines.

I don't know what kind of weapon TEC and Advent fighters use, so here are what bonuses their bombers get:

Vasari:

Better hull.
Tougher armor.
Stronger phase missiles.
Higher chance to penetrate shields.

Advent:

Better hull.
Stronger beam weapons.

TEC:

Better hull.
Tougher armor.
Stronger missiles.
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Now for fighters.

If TEC fighters use lasers, then they would have to research up that line too. Although TEC laser techs are not really expensive, they are also however primitive, and the TEC would end up with the weakest fighter squadrons anyway. If the TEC fighters use Autocannons or Missiles, then they'd get full bonuses.

If Advent fighters use Plasma weapons, then the Advent would either have to research up their expensive Plasma weapons line for little returns, or end up with weak paper-plane fighters that, while numerous, would get shot down like flies in a cyclone. If they use laser weapons, then they would have a decent weapon, but they would still be unarmored and would be swatted by enemy flak/fighters.

Vasari fighters use Phase Missiles(I know this much), and they would get boosts to all aspects along with the rest of the Vasari armada, so no extra research. They'd end up with the strongest but fewest fighters, but their four-plane squads would be able achieve high kills-to-losses ratios unless their opponent micromanages(in which case their user can micromanage as well).
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So the Advent fighters, being numerous but lighter, are akin to point interceptors. They can shoot bombers/siege/scouts/LRMs effectively but are vulnerable to enemy fighters and flak.

The Vasari fighters, being few but tougher, are akin to dogfighters. They can kill enemy fighters and shoot bombers/scouts/etc. while not being too badly affected by flak, but they can't be everywhere at once.

The TEC fighters are somewhere in between. They would intercept better than the Vasari equivs and dogfight better than the Advent equivs, but wouldn't be the best at either.

Vasari all the way I use a carrier heavy defense battlegroup Sakantra(whatever) Ship as the head and add a bunch of frigates, 6 combat oriented cruisers, 5 overseers and the 5 of the other cruiser. I generally make 10 carriers and split the fighter bomber combo. Such a battle group owns and having the Skimantra (damn Stardock yall need an online pdf lol) in those Battlegroup make for an insane combat fleet. Its more attuned to quick strikes but with such heavy fighter/bomber wings it makes for flexible play.

I recommend all to give it a try and see how u like it and you can even adjust it to sooth your taste by adding more cap ship and takin some frigates out. And in regards to flak i generally dont care about attaking them but make sure my own are present around my group. I hotkey them to #6 and the Carrier group 2 #5 and the whole group to whatever fleet order they came in

I use them all the time regardless of race. Fighters just plow through LRM and Siege Frigs while the bombers take care of anything bigger. However massed basic frigates can be rather tricky and are best dealt with using area damage, which is why i never field carrier exclusive fleets, always apply a good mix of vessels.