Sandbox Balancing Mod

For testing potential improvements to Vanilla Rebellion

Based on the various threads around here about rebalancing Sins, it seems that there are a number of abilities out there that need improving in some way to make them usable or better for normal play. However, there is often quite a lot of debate (and little consensus) about exactly how these improvements should be implemented, so this mod hopes to help with this by allowing us to test out suggestions to see if they make a difference in the game.

You can download the current version (1.00) from here.

As the name suggests, this mod is designed to allow testing of a number of different suggestions for improvement of the various abilities that are considered less useful in normal play. Please do test out the changes and report back comments, criticism or improvements here; we can't judge any of the improvements if there is no testing or feedback! More suggestions for balancing are always welcome, and given sufficient support/reasoning, should be no problem to add or change. I do not claim ownership of the ideas or concepts in any of the suggestions in this mod, although it is also not possible for me to attribute suggestions to specific people here either, so hopefully there are no hurt feelings!

To the Developers: I hope this mod and the potential feedback it garners will help you in deciding how to improve Sins further. SoASE is a great game and it deserves to be polished until it shines brighter than the Gamma Burst. :)

 


Instructions

To Install: Copy the "Sandbox Mod" Folder and its contents into the default mod folder. Its location will depend on your computer settings and operating system, but Sins can tell you where this is if you can't find it. Open the game, then click the following: "Options" > "Mods" > "Show Mod Path", and a window will pop up with the correct path. The pre-assembled mod contains the changes that are considered most recommended or interesting, at least from my point of view, and you can find details on these changes in the changelog below. There are various tutorials about how to install mods if you need more info, such as here.

To Modify: Since not everyone will agree about the best way to go about balancing Sins, I have tried to provide a compromise that will allow you to choose or remove the changes as you like. You can find a selection of options for each changed ability in the "Pick-n-Mix Entity Files" folder, categorised by the in-game name of the ability. Within each ability folder, you will find a number of sub folders labelled "Current", "Option 1", Option 2", and so on. The "Current" folder contains the ability unchanged as it is in the most current version of Sins, in this case 1.82 Beta. Each "Option" folder contains a different variant of the ability, all of which are described in the changelog below. To swap in a particular variant, simply open the folder containing the correct option and copy all the contents to the "GameInfo" folder inside the "Sandbox Mod" folder where you installed the mod. When prompted, you need to replace/overwrite the files already inside the GameInfo folder. If you want even finer control over your mod, all the entity files (which contain the necessary info to describe each ability) are provided in text format, which you can edit directly.

WARNING: This mod is probably incompatible with most other mods for standard Rebellion because there are extra entity files for some of the abilities. It is recommended to swap abilities in and out by overwriting the entity files by copying them, not deleting, or you may upset the entity manifest.



Changelog


Version 1.00 (10/01/2014)

Note: Bold text indicates the option included by default into the assembled mod. Short notes about the improvements are provided afterwards in normal text.

[TEC]

Kol Battleship

  • Flak Burst
    • Current: All SC and Corvettes in range when the ability is used take damage.
    • Option 1: [Balanced] Ability now fires 6 times over 3s, allowing additional units that move into range to be hit. (Otherwise identical to original effect but micro is now easier)
    • Option 2: [Buff] Ability now fires 6 times over 3s, allowing additional units that move into range to be hit, and also reduces the Chance to Hit for 10s: -25%/33.3%/42.8%/53.8% (Debuff cannot be stacked but can be refreshed. Absolute weapon damage is reduced to 80%/75%/70%/65%)

[Advent]

Radiance Battleship

  • Animosity
    • Current: Affected enemy units attack Radiance for the duration.
    • Option 1: [Buff] Affected units in addition have reduced weapon damage: -25%/-50%/-75%/-100% Damage Output (Absolute weapon damage is reduced to 80%/67%/57%/50%)
    • Option 2: [Buff] Affected units in addition take more damage: -25%/-50%/-75%/-100% Damage Reduction
    • Option 3: [Buff] The Radiance has increased weapon damage each time it is hit: 1%/2%/3%/4% Damage Output per hit up to 50 times (= max Damage Output 50%/100%/150%/200%), lasts for 10s after hit.
    • Option 4: [Buff] The Radiance has increased weapon damage per taunted unit: 5% Damage Output per unit (= max Damage Output 40%/90%/135%/185%)
  • Energy Absorption
    • Current: Unit gains antimatter from a fraction of the damage caused by energy weapons: 5%/9.1%/13.2%/17.3% and has extra armor: 2/4/6/8
    • Option 1: [Slight Buff] The Radiance has increased shield mitigation instead of armor: 1%/1.9%/2.8%/3.6% (Balanced at 5.4 base armor and 76% SM; improves slightly with increased ship armor and durability research)

Halcyon Carrier

  • Telekinetic Push
    • Current: All SC and Corvettes in range when the ability is used take damage, take a penalty to movement stats and are thrown away from the Halcyon.
    • Option 1: [Slight Buff] Ability now fires 6 times over 3s, allowing additional units that move into range to be hit. (The repulsion effect and damage can be stacked by multiple Halcyons and reapplied if the unit moves back into range but the debuff cannot be stacked although it can be refreshed).

Revelation Battlecruiser

  • Clairvoyance
    • Current: Places a Remote Sensor at the targetted planet.
    • Option 1: [Buff] In addition, reduces current max allegiance value at an enemy planet sharply: 5%/10%/15%/20%. (This effect simulates max allegiance reduction but has less effectiveness at planets with no culture. If the planet allegiance is already below the simulated maximum, it will increase until it reaches this maximum.)
    • Option 2: [Slight Buff] In addition, reveals all mines at the planet for the duration of the ability.
  • Guidance
    • Current: Reduces Ability Cooldown of all units around the Revelation: -25%/-30%/-35%/-40%
    • Option 1: [Buff] In addition also reduces Antimatter Cost of non-ultimate abilities: -25%/-30%/-35%/-40% (Absolute antimatter cost is reduced to 80%/76.9%/74.1%/71.4%)

Seeker Vessel

  • Martyrdom
    • Current: Seeker Vessel rams into target, killing itself and dealing 250 Damage. This ability autocasts when hull is less than 50%.
    • Option 1: [Balanced] Now autocasts when hull is less than 99%. (Micro is less necessary, although the ability still does not stack, so multiple Seekers suiciding at exactly the same time still only deals 250 damage).
    • Option 2: [Buff] Now autocasts when hull is less than 99% and ability can stack. (Every Seeker that hits will deal damage)
  • Lingering Presence
    • * Changed ability so it can only stack once instead of infinitely. It otherwise works the same way as before.

Iconus Guardian

  • Shield Projection
    • Current: Iconus shares 33% of incoming damage with all friendly units in the area.
    • Option 1: [Slight Buff] In addition, Iconus gains 100% block of shield bypass for the ability duration. (This is to stop shared phase missile damage from damaging the Iconus' hull and so prevent it suiciding. It will tank 33% of the damage boost from shield bypass.)
    • Option 2: [Buff] In addition, Iconus gains 100% block of shield bypass and all units sharing damage also get a 10% block of shield bypass for the ability duration. (This prevents Iconus suicide and also provides the Advent with a portable buff against phase missiles. It should not have any effect on TEC balancing.)

[Vasari]

Skirantra Carrier

  • Microphasing Aura
    • Current: All strikecraft within range have a chance to be made briefly invulnerable and teleported towards their attack targets.
    • Option 1: [Buff] In addition, all enemy units within range have a percentage of incoming weapons damage bypass the shields: -1%/-2%/-3%/-4% Weapon Block (Despite the name, all weapons will partially bypass shields. At 57% mitigation (frigates), this equals a damage boost of 1.3%/2.7%/4.0%/5.3% and at 76% mitigation (Cap Ships), this equals a damage boost of 3.2%/6.3%/9.5%/12.7%. The effectiveness is boosted with higher enemy SM and is linearly additive with PM bypass research)

Antorak Marauder

  • Phase Out Hull
    • Current: Makes the targetted unit invulnerable but also shifts it into Phase Space, preventing it doing most activities. Also heals 200 shield on firendly units and inflicts 200 shield damage on enemies.
    • Option 1: [Slight Buff] Instead of dealing 200 shield damage, deals 80 unmitigated hull damage to enemies.
  • Distort Gravity
    • Current: Increases linear speed, acceleration, turn rate and decreases phase jump departure distance for all units near to the Marauder when the ability is cast.
    • Option 1: [Slight Buff] Instead of decreasing the phase jump departure distance, it now decreases phase jump charge-up time. The ability is also adjusted so that it is applied only to units that remain within range of the Marauder. (The phase jump distance and charge-up time are probably comparable to each other in terms of charge up time being similar to linear movement time).
    • Option 2: [Buff] In addition to Option 1, if the jump is made before it expires, the ability also restores Antimatter on all affected ships: 30/45/60/75 (This effect simulates jump antimatter loss reduction under most circumstances, which is linear, e.g. -75% loss = only 25 AM cost to jump instead of 100. The ability does have an advantage by giving net antimatter under two situations: the ship has less AM than it costs to jump, and the player's AM cost reduction is greater than 100 - [AM restoration value]).
  • Subversion
    • Current: Adds a Remote Sensor to the planet and increases ship and structure build times.
    • Option 1: [Buff] Adds a Remote Sensor to the planet in the same way. Also drastically slows ships phase jumping to the planet for 30s, although this effect can only be activated once every time period: 120s/110s/100s/90s (The ship slowing does not need to be microed and is triggered off by the first ship that enters phase space).
    • Option 2: [Buff] In addition to option 1, the ability also causes 1/s damage to the planet for the duration. (This effect is primarily to prevent planetary recovery during a hit-and-run attack).
    • Option 3: [Buff] In addition to option 1, the ability also reduces extractor income rates: 11.1%/25%/42.9%/66.7% (Absolute extraction rate is reduced to 90%/80%/70%/60%)

 


Other Improvements to Consider

These are potential ideas that have been suggested, but do not have enough support or fleshing-out to be included in the mod. Please feel free to discuss these. I'll update the list with further ideas as they are suggested.

  • The Rankulas Battleship and all of its abilities. Some major discussion about the various options available can be found here.
  • Shield Regeneration (Progenitor Mothership) does not improve with level in proportion to Repair Cloud (Skirantra Carrier)
  • Adaptive Forcefield (Kol Battleship) is perhaps better as a passive, or at least requires lower AM consumption on the Kol to be useful.

 Edit: <sigh>. Posting complicated things on this forum is not trivial. But it is corrected now.

10,224 views 3 replies
Reply #1 Top

My opinions, take them as you will...

Flak burst, use option 1....no need for a debuff, the only issue with flak burst is that it is hard to dependably hit a lot of SC while microing...if the ability fires in waves, that will be more than enough to make this ability excellent even with only a single kol...

Animosity -- the issue is the range and the target cap, you need to focus on those and not finding interesting debuffs...the ability needs to be effective at it's core element, which is drawing fire....none of the suggested changes do this to any degree...if you do go with the DR options, those values are extreme....this is an AOE, and those DR penalties are better than designate target (single target, must face target) or volatile nanites (ultimate cap ability)...it would be comparable to missile barrage being a non-ultimate ability...

TK Push -- I use a 2.5s delay between waves for both flak burst and TK push, with 2/3/4/5 waves at levels 1/2/3/4...having the waves too close defeats the entire point, which is to affect large amounts of SC....

Clairvoyance -- the mine revealing has been discussed in the past, and was deemed to OP against Vasari...it also is the type of attribute that doesn't scale well as the ability levels since it is all or nothing...AL already can capture mines, and AR are still the 2nd best faction for dealing with Orky rushing...one thing you may want to consider is simply making the planet more susceptible to bombing damage (it's like DR but technically a different entity modifier)...

Martydom -- removing the stacking limitation is important, but you aren't going to be very successful with autocast only triggering at 1% HP...in fact, the odds of the seeker ever being between 0% and 1% is pretty much zero, and if you do manage to hit that magic number, it won't be long enough for the seeker to close in on the target...what I would suggest is leave it at 100% hull and turn off autocast by default...this way, they don't suicide when you don't want them to, but the player can select all their scouts, do a single right click on the ability (to toggle autocast on/off, which affects all selected ships), and then select a single target...with the proper autocast settings you can get unlimited seekers to hit a target at will, no damage or further microing needed...I have done this in the past and the only further balancing needed was finding the appropriate damage value to justify the cost of the seeker...

Distort Gravity -- you have to be careful with the buff ending when out of range of the marauder...it is hard to control (and/or micro) the precise timing of ships jumping, and any ship that jumps right after the marauder does will not get any of the buffs...personally, I would just make it an instant action that affects the entire gravity well for a period of time...even if the marauder leaves, the buff still stands...that way you don't have the issue of ships just behind the marauder not getting affected at all...in short, the weakness of this ability is that it is micro intensive for a meh buff...remove the micro and it is much more viable...I would make it easier to use first before buffing the actual stats....

Subversion -- I've tried a few things in the past, but the changes that most please me are as follows...first, it is fire and forget (just like embargo)...you can do this be either making the range really far (so it can always target the planet) or by simply applying a buff directly to the well (like embargo does)...this eliminates the weakness that the ship has to get really close to the planet (which endangers the marauder and takes too much time)...then, the 1DPS to the planet works beautifully, I found it made the ability quite useful when used in conjunction with Phase Out Hull (if while bombing the planet your cap takes too much damage, use PoH and not worry about the planet's HP regenerating)...

As for Adaptive Forcefield, I used to favor making it passive, but I am against that now...GRG is much more useful now that kol spam is viable for late game and you are depending more on caps/titans for firepower...additionally, you are already buffing flak burst...what I would suggest is simply make the duration match the cooldown at all levels...this will work wonders for making this ability useful at all levels, not just level 4...

 

 

Reply #2 Top

Two other abilities you may want to consider working on is the phasing ability on the Vasari scout and the phasic barrier on Vasari structures...

The scout ability only channels while the scout is taking damage...problem is, you can't take damage while in phase space...so instead the scout toggles in and out of phase space, getting itself killed anyway...ability needs to keep it in phase space for a good amount of time...might be one of those you leave the autocast off by default, since only humans will use it intelligently...

Then there is phasic barrier...that ability just needs to stop forcing the attackers to retarget...it makes attacking Vasari structures impossible without micro management...

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 1

My opinions, take them as you will...
End of Seleuceia's quote

Taken and appreciated.

Flak burst, use option 1....no need for a debuff, the only issue with flak burst is that it is hard to dependably hit a lot of SC while microing...if the ability fires in waves, that will be more than enough to make this ability excellent even with only a single kol...

TK Push -- I use a 2.5s delay between waves for both flak burst and TK push, with 2/3/4/5 waves at levels 1/2/3/4...having the waves too close defeats the entire point, which is to affect large amounts of SC....

End of quote

I wanted (at least at this early stage) to try not to modify these abilities to function too differently from their original counterparts. The idea behind 6 waves in 3s with only one application per SC is to give you a 2.5s micromanagement tolerance, so you simulate what would happen if you did micro the ability well. Having multiple widely-spaced waves means you can hit SCs more than once with a single cast of the ability (or put another way, it would be a bit like having the vanilla ability with a cooldown of 2.5s and proportionately reduced AM cost), which would require value balancing to compensate. It also means that you by default make the ability cooldown >5/7.5/10/12.5s, which is longer at L3 and 4 than the standard cooldowns. As a compromise, I could elongate the casting period: how many seconds do you think would be needed to hit most of a large non-microed/bunched up alpha strike?


Animosity -- the issue is the range and the target cap, you need to focus on those and not finding interesting debuffs...
End of quote

LOL. But interesting debuffs are interesting. :) That said, surely the consensus is that the Radiance needs some aid to help it tank. As you did say, "Even if the radiance could guarantee that ALL enemies in the ENTIRE gravity well would attack it INDEFINITELY (ie no AM or cooldown considerations), the Radiance sucks at tanking..."

the ability needs to be effective at it's core element, which is drawing fire....none of the suggested changes do this to any degree...
End of quote

Is the target cap a problem? At present, 8/18/27/37 accounts for something like 32-96/72-216/108-324/148-444 fleet supply of frigates (supply range 4-12), which surely is quite a fraction of even a large force. I agree the range is rubbish, though. How does 4500/6500/8500/10500 sound (=LFs and HFs/Cap Ships/SBs and defenses/Titans and LRs)?

if you do go with the DR options, those values are extreme....this is an AOE, and those DR penalties are better than designate target (single target, must face target) or volatile nanites (ultimate cap ability)...it would be comparable to missile barrage being a non-ultimate ability...
End of quote

Heh. That's true about the damage reduction. Perhaps it's not such a great idea after all. But the damage output values don't sound too bad, right? The Radiance under fire from taunted units will last 14.2%/28.6%/42.8%/57.1% longer assuming there are no other units focus-firing it.

Clairvoyance -- the mine revealing has been discussed in the past, and was deemed to OP against Vasari...it also is the type of attribute that doesn't scale well as the ability levels since it is all or nothing...AL already can capture mines, and AR are still the 2nd best faction for dealing with Orky rushing...one thing you may want to consider is simply making the planet more susceptible to bombing damage (it's like DR but technically a different entity modifier)...
End of quote

I'll deprecate the mine revealing idea, and I can add an option to increase bombing damage.

Martyrdom...but you aren't going to be very successful with autocast only triggering at 1% HP...
End of quote

Heh. I facepalmed when I saw my stupid error. I was reading "AutocastWhenDamageTakenExceedsPerc 0.01" but posted the converse. It's fixed, though. I thought this option would provide an intermediate function, allowing your scouts to engage the enemy (200 of them, say, do have quite a bit of firepower) but still be able to have a good chance at suiciding without micro when they run out of shields.

...what I would suggest is leave it at 100% hull and turn off autocast by default...

...with the proper autocast settings you can get unlimited seekers to hit a target at will, no damage or further microing needed

...I have done this in the past and the only further balancing needed was finding the appropriate damage value to justify the cost of the seeker...

End of quote

I think Revenge From Beyond would help give you more bang for your buck (700/900 per scout, which equals 3.5/4.5d per credit = 38/48 shots from a Destra Crusader) which seems to me quite reasonable against a high-value target such as a SB or a Titan if it's not protected by a really large fleet. I'll add an option with instant autocast, though.

Distort Gravity ...remove the micro and it is much more viable...I would make it easier to use first before buffing the actual stats....
End of quote

Very true. I was admittedly putting lots of effort into practising the micro required to make the AM restore while I tested the mod, which obviously made me lose sight of the actual practicality. I'll change the two existing options to be more like Jam Weapons by removing the out-of-range finish condition (all ships that move into range get the buff, but it only ends at the same time as the Marauder) and add an unbuffed option affecting the grav well.


Subversion -- I've tried a few things in the past, but the changes that most please me are as follows...first, it is fire and forget (just like embargo)...you can do this be either making the range really far (so it can always target the planet) or by simply applying a buff directly to the well (like embargo does)...
End of quote

I guess the 5000 range for subversion was chosen to be the same as other planet abilities and siege Cap Ship bombing range. I think it should still target the planet (there are entry vehicles after all), but 20000 range would probably do it.

As for Adaptive Forcefield, I used to favor making it passive, but I am against that now...GRG is much more useful now that kol spam is viable for late game and you are depending more on caps/titans for firepower...additionally, you are already buffing flak burst...what I would suggest is simply make the duration match the cooldown at all levels...this will work wonders for making this ability useful at all levels, not just level 4... 
End of quote

Fair enough. I'll see if anyone else has stuff to add, and add an option for it.

The scout ability only channels while the scout is taking damage...problem is, you can't take damage while in phase space...so instead the scout toggles in and out of phase space, getting itself killed anyway...ability needs to keep it in phase space for a good amount of time...might be one of those you leave the autocast off by default, since only humans will use it intelligently...
End of quote

Will take a look at it.

Then there is phasic barrier...that ability just needs to stop forcing the attackers to retarget...it makes attacking Vasari structures impossible without micro management...
End of quote

I think target shifting into phase space has quite a few functions, one of which appears to be forcing attackers to repick their targets. I'm not sure this can be completely fixed without removing the phase space function (it would then allow structures to be affected by abilities), but perhaps we could mitigate it by altering the ability so you can't toggle it. Instead, you could only activate it once every time period, say 30s, when the buff expires.