Titans now never die - Isn't illogical or even a craziness?

Older way of things?

The titan losing levels on death was never a thing.

Unless my memory has completely soured of Beta 1 of Rebellion. Titans have always kept levels on death throughout its entirety according to my memory.

I'm pretty sure Titans always retained there level but I haven't been around long enough to definitively tell you. Goa should be around later today and he will give a full history of Titan leveling and whether or not they ever lost levels.

Maybe I'm wrong, but what you think about the topic? 

If they lost their levels when they are killed, the game would be game over for that player, doesnt matter if he had more planets and stronger economy, a level6 titan VS a level1 is not a fight anymore, its a slaughter. Making the game "who loses his titan first" would not be a good idea.

OK I admit against AI it is annoying to face that level6-7-8-9-10 titan many times before you destroy that faction, but it makes the game harder, and more challenging.

I agree with the OP.

Imho the Titans come back too early and as powerful as ever. It just costs about 15K and 8 minutes to rebuild a Titan.

That's about the time it takes for me to conquer, colonize and strengthen the defenses on one world.

15K is also peanuts late game. A leveled-up Titan is worth far more than that! A single Titan can destroy an entire fleet of normal ships worth 200K.

But... despite this I basically agree with Turchany. In terms of gameplay I suppose it's not that bad a system, because the AI is pretty dumb and crashes its Titans on starbases and big fleets. If it were very expensive and took too long to rebuild, then the AI would probably become too weak and boring to fight against.

Yet, a little longer and a bit more expensive late-game might not be too bad, though. Or maybe let it depend on the map size (multiply the rebuild time by 2 on large maps and by 3 on huge maps). Imo that could work out too. I think it's mainly a little annoying on really large maps, because you finally got the advantage! And it gained you just 1 of 100 planets.

But then again, once you've killed a Titan, you know how to do it a second time, and a third time, and so on. So the first few times it comes back are most difficult, but after a while it's a bit less difficult.

Sooo.... overall the current system isn't that bad, imho.

The costs increases for each subsequent build and level already I believe.

One has to note however, that when a player looses his Titan he had most likely a battle going bad.

If a battle goes that bad, changes are good, that the player in question is already fighting for his life. And believe me, in such a case, 8 minutes rebuild time and 15 K do hurt.

What's evident in a lot of these type of threads is that difficulty level is impacted by these decisions. A new player playing on Easy doesn't have the skillset to handle some of these gameplay features. 

Options like disable starbases was achieved by playing Vanilla (Can't do that with Rebellion only).

Superweapons were built by the AI up until halfway through the Diplomacy expansion patches.

The Rebellion game as a stand alone expansion is lacking options to disable Starbases, Titans and Superweapons which was previously available by playing the stand alone expansions. Titans retaining levels is difficult for new players to manage.

It's probably hard for some of us to realize their frustrations when we've been playing the game for 5 years through the initial release and all the expansions. I could even appreciate having some of the options available for FFA games: such as no superweapons or Titans do not retain levels on death if they were added. 

Folks, thanks for your answers! I agree with all what you say, just I desire more realistic game. Every game I play as a true story using a lot of my imagination. Maybe I'm too kiddish.

ZombiesRus5, I play against Unfair AI and win always. I dobut if an Easy(Normal too) AI can produce a titan.

In reality when you destroy something, it comes back stronger, not weaker.

An unfair AI well... cheats!

If you want a more realistic game play against more lower level AI's locked against you. When you do destroy something of value to your opponent they will have a much harder time replacing it which would be more realistic. 

Playing against higher level AI's and them complaining it's not realistic well... seems not very realistic

ZombiesRus5, братушка, I think most of us here can win Unfair AI, it's not a big deal. I play with locked AI.

I have no doubt you can beat the unfair AI. Your point was about realism which I am pointing out loses it's meaning the higher difficulty you place the AI into.

If you can beat unfair ai, then I suggest you move on to mulitplayer. Playing against humans opens up a depth of strategy and tactics that is simply not possible in singleplayer. And yes, titans DO die in multiplayer, and often (except VL titan with overseer, lolz).

I understand you now.  

Yes, I will, when I get a new computer.  

So I'm the official historian of Sins now am I? I'm okay with that. 

I would have to look into the old beta 1 threads to make sure, but I also believe titans have always kept their levels. And there was no shortage of debate about this back then either, I can promise you...

The logic here from a game design standpoint is that Sins titans were designed to be more like Hero Units in other games than Capitalships, and if you've played games like Battle for Middle Earth it seems pretty standard that Hero Units keep their levels when defeated and resummoned. Since the war in Sins is on such a large scale and Sins has a rather minimal story anyways, it didn't make sense to make characters for the titans, but in pretty much every other way that is what titans are. They are the most powerful single units available, are limited to having one of them, and they retain their experience when killed.

From the game balance logic as others have said, if titans did not lose their levels once you get to the midgame and everyone's titans has leveled up a few times, it would basically a game of making sure your titan is not destroyed. Even if you have a larger economy and fleet, if your level 6 titan dies while your opponent's lives and gets to level 7 you're larger fleet and economy might not mean much. True, in a 1v1 match any battle where you lose your titan might be fatal regardless, but much of Sins competitive multiplayer revolves on team battles, and your allies can often by you the time or send you the resources to rebuild a fallen titan.

Lore logic yes it is a bit harder to believe. That said, the Advent have a capitalship ability that allows there caps to regain their levels, so it really isn't a surprise that their titan crews can literally be saved through the unity and be deployed on a rebuilt titan. For the other two races, well it is standard practice for ships to take veteran crew and send them to train others so that if the ship guys not all of the skill will be lost. If the Captain manages to escape in an escape pod then you could argue its plausible that they'd have enough former ship crew and new members they trained to recrew a rebuilt titan.

This was talked in the beta and I was fine with it, but it has yet to be implemented. Instead titans became more expensive and take longer to construct as they level up.

Also as with Superweapons, there are  mods available for Singe Players who do not like this system. I made a mod that resets titan levels when they are destroyed for Rebellion 1.1, however surprisingly few people seemed interested, so I didn't update it by itself. However I still maintain it for Rebellion 1.52 as an optional minimod in my Enhanced 4X Mod.

I honestly don't care for Titans.  I would like a way to turn them off in the game; super weapons too.  I'm not against trying new things but I would also like a way to be protected from these new things.  

GoaFan77 wrote:

"From the game balance logic as others have said, if titans did not lose their levels once you get to the midgame and everyone's titans has leveled up a few times, it would basically a game of making sure your titan is not destroyed. Even if you have a larger economy and fleet, if your level 6 titan dies while your opponent's lives and gets to level 7 you're larger fleet and economy might not mean much. True, in a 1v1 match any battle where you lose your titan might be fatal regardless, but much of Sins competitive multiplayer revolves on team battles, and your allies can often by you the time or send you the resources to rebuild a fallen titan."

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you.  If you're going to have Titans in the game then they should be like this.  But I also say that this is exactly why Titans should be a player's option. Titans are the tail that wag the dog.  If the demise of a single unit is so important to the game then why is it in the game?  

I love the Titan models.  Especially the Eradica and Kultorask.  When they were announced I couldn't wait to try them.  And I love that this was something brought into the game because they are adding to and improving the game I love.   And I am happy that Titans are in the game for those who love them.  But I would personally prefer to play without them.  And since I will be trying your Enhanced 4X Mod I will definitely make use of your minimod.  So thank you for making that for people like me.  

And now back to my evil lair.  

backs out of the room slowly...