Does mounted combat gets changed in LH?

in FE choosing units to use mount is a no brainer.there are no drawbacks really.no increased upkeep,no spear doing bonus damage against them,no increased production times,no accuracy penalty when using ranged weapons with mounted units,no disallowing 2h weapons when mounted,no penalty when assaulting fortified cities.when you had access to wargs\horses using them in your designs was always the best idea.the new ability based combat in LH sounds nice but if mounted combat didn't gets changed then all we gonna see is humans using super fast mounted death-stacks to beat the crap out from the AI's random armies.just like in FE.

32,662 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top

And whenever one has enough crystals its a no brainer to put out units with enchanted items. So the balance is best restored by changing number of horses.

Furthermore often AIs pay 5 gildar per horse, so its not always a no brainer.

Reply #2 Top

I do think something has to be done to make all-cavalry armies less attractive.

 

One idea would be having cavalry units reduce growth due to horsefeed, but that would either be too minor or too crippling.

 

Making mounts expensive to maintain might be the best solution, alongside marksman traits giving anti-cav, and maybe spear units a square option to do extra damage vs cavalry that scales with how much the cavalry moves in a turn?

 

Also I'd have mounts give a penalty to accuracy with ranged weapons.  One faction gets to ignore this penalty as a trait.

 

 

Reply #4 Top

Quoting willie, reply 3


I want SPIDER MOUNTS!!

Spider mounts exist, i got once spider from quest and once from recruiting a high level hero. There are also heroes with drake mounts i think.

Reply #5 Top

Spears and lances should be a great mounted unit killer, both on the offense and defense. I also like the malus suggiestions for city battles.

 

But still something should be done to mounted archers as well. I think they should be really expensive due to how long time it takes to train a good mounted archer in real life (and due to overpowerfull they are in the game at the moment).

Alternatively the archers range and damage/hit rate efficiency could be reduced when an archer is mounted, which also makes alot of sense both realistically and gameplay wise.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting carn112004, reply 1

And whenever one has enough crystals its a no brainer to put out units with enchanted items. So the balance is best restored by changing number of horses.

Furthermore often AIs pay 5 gildar per horse, so its not always a no brainer.

building crystal mines and researching techs that improve crystal harvesting and unlock crystal equipment is a big investment.to start producing cavalry units you only need to research a cheap tech and find a horse resource then build a cheap "extractor" over the horse resource.after you upgraded your horse breeder you can start pumping out cavalry units for the rest of the game.crystal equipment costs labor too while horses don't.

 

 

Reply #7 Top

Its one tech to have crystal equipment and crystal mines are not mroe expensive than horsemines and the resource costs are unlike metal items rather low.

Maybe for solution it would be enough to include some resource cost for horses and wargs?

 

That would be far simpler than altering game mechanics.

Reply #8 Top

Raising midly the upkeep cost of mounted troops sounds good. This cost could be in horses, that would effectively limit the total size of a player's cavalry (of course don't even dream of  applying this to the AI)

Reply #9 Top

Quoting willie, reply 3

I want SPIDER MOUNTS!!

Forget spiders, I want dragon mounts. :grin:

Reply #10 Top

Quoting carn112004, reply 7

Its one tech to have crystal equipment and crystal mines are not mroe expensive than horsemines and the resource costs are unlike metal items rather low.

Maybe for solution it would be enough to include some resource cost for horses and wargs?

 

That would be far simpler than altering game mechanics.

with only one upgraded horse breeder you can spam cavalry units for the rest of the game.horses are always useful and never become obsolete unlike basic crystal equipment that you get after researching the"charms" tech.if you want to rely on crystal based armies you need to research a bunch of techs then maximize crystal harvesting.those level 3 crystal mines(crystal trove) are quite expensive.my +80 production city needs 8 turns to finish a crystal trove. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #11 Top

i don't like the current mount system either. maybe horses and wargs should not be a resource that can be harvested infinitely but instead provide a fixed pool of mounts per site. for example, a  stable allows you to train 1 unit with horses and a ranch (upgrade) allows you to have two cavalry units. when one of the cav units dies or is disbanded, you can then build a new unit with the horses (basically the same system civ 5 uses for strategic resources; also similar to how the dragon lair and ogre lair improvements in FE already work - an ogre lair spawns up to 3 ogres over time and will only spawn more when one of the ogres is deleted/killed)

this way, your ability to use mounted units would be more limited and you'd need more than 1 wild horse/warg site if you actually want to field armies that consist mostly/entirely of mounted troops.

 

 

Reply #12 Top

I always thought a system where instead of granting prone resistance mounts would be unequipped for the rest of combat if a unit was knocked prone would be interesting.

That would create a lot of counters to mounts, and it would be fun. You would be able to knock opponents off their mounts and continue fighting. It would also add some depth because it would penalize super heavy mounted units the most.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting NorsemanViking, reply 5

Spears and lances should be a great mounted unit killer, both on the offense and defense. I also like the malus suggiestions for city battles.

 
But still something should be done to mounted archers as well. I think they should be really expensive due to how long time it takes to train a good mounted archer in real life (and due to overpowerfull they are in the game at the moment).

Alternatively the archers range and damage/hit rate efficiency could be reduced when an archer is mounted, which also makes alot of sense both realistically and gameplay wise.

yes.

and yes to trainable spider mounts.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Azunai_, reply 11

i don't like the current mount system either. maybe horses and wargs should not be a resource that can be harvested infinitely but instead provide a fixed pool of mounts per site. for example, a  stable allows you to train 1 unit with horses and a ranch (upgrade) allows you to have two cavalry units. when one of the cav units dies or is disbanded, you can then build a new unit with the horses (basically the same system civ 5 uses for strategic resources; also similar to how the dragon lair and ogre lair improvements in FE already work - an ogre lair spawns up to 3 ogres over time and will only spawn more when one of the ogres is deleted/killed)

this way, your ability to use mounted units would be more limited and you'd need more than 1 wild horse/warg site if you actually want to field armies that consist mostly/entirely of mounted troops.

  

I see what you want to achieve with this, you want to avoid huge stocks of horses by changing the sources from unlimited to limited.

What about requiring stock buildings instead? Let's say that a city can keep only a small amount of horses, like 10 or 20, and if you want to stock more horses you need to construct a city building, like for example stables, that makes for additional 10-20 horses.

And yes, horses and wargs should have a small upkeep cost. They are not paid wages, but they have to eat and be maintained anyway.

Another solution would be to require a new horse each time a unit is "healed from death". I will explain with an example: You have a group of three mounted units, and one is killed in combat, leaving you with a group of two units. Over time the group is healed and one unit "resurrects" or more apropiately, it's replaced by a new soldier. This soldier has a new horse, and this horse should be substracted from the stock. And by the way, it should be the same with material and crystal.

Reply #15 Top

The main reason i rarely build non-mounted units though is the overland speed. I'd make a special unit for transportation that you can add to the stack to give foot soldiers more movement overland, but not in combat.

Reply #16 Top

I'd love to see higher quality mounts require movement up the tech tree in a unique direction.

 

Mounts do need to increase maintenance, and that maintenance increase should be based on the weight the horse is carrying.  Having a horse carrying platemail should require 10 times the mainteance of some half-naked dude with a spear.

 

Reply #17 Top

Mounts are one of those "choices" that are no choice at all.  You use them once you can and there is no reason not to.  They should have some sort of cost or negative or something that makes the decision to use them an actual decision or choice.

Reply #18 Top

What I'd really like to see done:

 

wargs changed to a food source

 

Horses become an upgradable resource, which you have to upgrade to various types of mount

 

Basic mount would be avaliable in shop.

Advanced mounts would require the necessary resource to build the unit, horses would be kept in the same pool to reduce micromanagement. 

 

You'd have travel horses, warhorses (can carry more) , coursers (+init, would repalce wargs), and saddle horses (+map movement)

 

 

Reply #19 Top

I don't want to eat wargs, I'd rather eat horses if I have to choose... :sick:

Reply #20 Top

MORE MOUNTS! Spiders! Drakes! Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 18

What I'd really like to see done:

[...]
 
Horses become an upgradable resource, which you have to upgrade to various types of mount

You mean like "Horse" --> "Elite Horse"? Sounds interesting. But how would it work gameplay-wise?

Reply #22 Top

You'd have to research the appropiate tech and upgrade a horse resource to get access to an elite horse.  Upgrading a horse resource would also cost horses so you couldn't rush it without trading.

 

I'd love to see magical horses, maybe gained through quest, but that would require a tech being unlocked through completing a quest- and I'm not sure if that's capable via modding.

 

I'd suggest not making it separate resources due to micromanagement

Reply #23 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 22

You'd have to research the appropiate tech and upgrade a horse resource to get access to an elite horse.  Upgrading a horse resource would also cost horses so you couldn't rush it without trading.

I'd love to see magical horses, maybe gained through quest, but that would require a tech being unlocked through completing a quest- and I'm not sure if that's capable via modding.

I'd suggest not making it separate resources due to micromanagement

I see. Sounds interesting as long as it's possible to do it without too much micromanagement. Perhaps there could be a building that upgrades 1 horse to 1 elite horse each x turns, or even better, 1 horse + 1 metal to 1 elite horse

Reply #24 Top

The only thing about making horses globally harder to get is that, in combination with the Tireless March nerf, it's make the strategic mid-to-endgame much more tedious.  Strategic mobility makes things faster and funner.  

Reply #25 Top

I'm pretty new to FE, but it seems like the game does a pretty good job with making metal and crystals a real limiting resource, if you don't have a really solid supply (either though luck or tech) you have to build units with a lot of metal/crystal requirements slowly.  It just seems that with horses/wargs the production to cost ratio isn't right.  Mounted units should cost more mounts or the resources should produce less.

 

That said, I do think it would be nice if there was a bonus for not having any mount, say an extra trait slot.