[SotF] Addressing Rebellion Balance and Gameplay issues

After playing Rebellion quite a bit against human players I have several changes I'm going to make to Rebellion to help normalize out many of the issues related to balance and gameplay. And while I have tried to avoid modifying core game mechanics with the original races in previous versions of SotF, I feel these are such an issue to mod play they need to be addressed.

Related journal: [SotF] Improving the AI

 

Stripped to the Core

This ability poses the most issues as 1) it can only be used by a human player. 2) it renders the planet useless. 3) it gives untax credits/metal/crystal that ignores game speed settings. Consequently a VL player given enough planets, (doesn't require many), can build a larger fleet than any others on the field. Add in phase stabilizers and Kosturas and a VL player can easily avoid most players stripping their planets and jumping out before anything can be done. 

I don't want to remove Vasari's unique ability to go mobile, but reducing planets to dead asteroids and asteroid belts is hardly conducive to a fun game. So what's the answer then. Ideally I would like to have a buff from Stardock/IC that initiates the Stripping process in lieu of using Scuttling as the driving mechanism. A simple StripPlanet buff instant action with a OnDelay would work fine given the current implentation. 

If a new buff instant action can't be coerced out of the devs, then more drastic measures will be followed. In this approach the VL titan will get it's own version of resource drain, dumping micro-jump, which will allow a VL player to strip all the resources from a planet. Each level will improve the stripping time and value received. The planet will only be allowed to be stripped once and will show on it's info card Stripped to the Core. These planets will still support the same logistic and tactical slots but will be uncolonizable for a period of time. The VL player will still lose all structures on the planet stripped.

 

Uncapped Titan AOE's

Many of the Titans have marginalized frigate fleets to the point where it can become "feeding the titan" if you bring any frigates to the party. Consequently all Titans with AOE damage dealing abilities will be looked at to determine if a) the damage dealt is to high, or b) the AOE needs a target cap. 

 

Wail of the Sacrificed

This is another ability that can only be used by humans and it's effect is extremely powerful leaving the AI at a complete disadvantage. This ability will be changed to only affect ships in it's gravity well and will damage ships and population at a much slower rate. By moving it to an in gravity well affect the AI will be able to use Target conditions to effectively use it against invading enemies.

 

Mobilization

We all know the complaints about mobilized Orkulus star bases and I definitely agree. This is yet another area you can completely exploit both AI's and human players. To support this concept but remove the sheer OP'ness of it Vasari Rebels will get two types of Star bases. The first Star base that can be built will be the Defensive only version of the Orkulus. This starbase will never be able to phase jump. When mobilization is researched you will be able to build a special Orkulus that has phase engines installed, but will have dramatically reduced health, weapons and strikecraft upgrades. The mobilized star base will also lack block colonize and trade ports as an option. It may also be possible to tie fleet supply to the mobile starbase which I will investigate.

 

 

9,627 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top

Stripped: Is fine.

Uncapped AoE's: I agree, I've said this since beta B.

Wail: Impossible to balance ability needs to be scrapped or reworked into something else.

Mobilization: Just make it only be allowed to jump in friendly territory. It fits there defensive theme.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 1
Stripped: Is fine.

Uncapped AoE's: I agree, I've said this since beta B.

Wail: Impossible to balance ability needs to be scrapped or reworked into something else.

Mobilization: Just make it only be allowed to jump in friendly territory. It fits there defensive theme.
End of MayallCommunion's quote

I can only assume you didn't really read what I wrote.

Reply #3 Top

"I'm going to make to Rebellion to help normalize out many of the issues related to balance and gameplay. And while I have tried to avoid modifying core game mechanics with the original races in previous versions of SotF, I feel these are such an issue to mod play they need to be addressed."

 

Just expressing my opinion.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 3
Just expressing my opinion.
End of MayallCommunion's quote

Then 3 out of 4 of your opinions are wrong here.

Reply #5 Top

Thats your opinion I think stripped is fine now.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 6
Thats your opinion I think stripped is fine now.
End of MayallCommunion's quote

Lol, I still feel you are confused. These are changes I'm going to make to the game to address shortcomings when it comes to the AI. I guess you just don't understand, so no worries.

Reply #7 Top

Dont you know dude, 

Playing with the AI is so last century. 

If its not PvP it isnt legit.  :rolleyes:

Reply #8 Top

Quoting -Ue_Carbon, reply 8
Dont you know dude, 

Playing with the AI is so last century. 

If its not PvP it isnt legit. 
End of -Ue_Carbon's quote

That and if you can't see stripping is obviously unbalanced currently, then I have a hard time respecting your opinion. Add in the FACT the AI can't handle any of these new technologies and it just turns into gaming the AI. 

One of the goals with my mod is to give the AI access to the same things a human player can do. For example, AI starbases are able to access the unique abilities it won't normally if ever frankly in the vanilla game. In my testing I had an AI starbase Red Button my fleet when I wasn't paying attention.

 

Reply #9 Top

Stripped is not fine. It needs further balancing.

 

BTW, wail of the sacrificed does not damage population at all.

 

AND, if wail does affect the gravity well of the temple of communion, you make it in fact more powerfull. Right now you are at least punished if you dont notice the enemy fleet in time.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting ARESIV, reply 10
Stripped is not fine. It needs further balancing.
End of ARESIV's quote

Earned respect... now...

Quoting ARESIV, reply 10
BTW, wail of the sacrificed does not damage population at all.
End of ARESIV's quote

Correct, I was talking about what I would do on that part. Unfortunately there is no finish condition for population lost so I'll be looking at a different rebalance on that.

Quoting ARESIV, reply 10
AND, if wail does affect the gravity well of the temple of communion, you make it in fact more powerfull. Right now you are at least punished if you dont notice the enemy fleet in time.
End of ARESIV's quote

I will be rebalancing Wail so it's not an entire fleet killer. Additionally, the AI has absolutely no way to target and use wail currently. Making it an in gravity well usage allows the AI to apply target conditions on when it should be used.

And in my opinion Wail is vastly superior in the affects adjacent wells as you can have overlapping planets each protecting the other. I'll probably give Wail some ramp up time with the effect so if your invading a planet with Wail activated you'll see it and might have time to destroy the culture center of flee rather than the WTF happened moment.

 

Reply #11 Top

What if Wail had the same effect of that mass disorient thing that advent SBs have? just on the scale of the whole gravity well. At the very least it would be funny to watch a whole fleet start tilting in random directions

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Doshka19, reply 12
What if Wail had the same effect of that mass disorient thing that advent SBs have? just on the scale of the whole gravity well. At the very least it would be funny to watch a whole fleet start tilting in random directions
End of Doshka19's quote

 

That would certainly be funny, however I see only a very limited use for that in multiplayer. Unless you cast them adrift for a very long time.

Reply #13 Top

In regards of Stripped to the Core. I think that stripping the planet should have bigger penalties, be an act of desperation and used in times of great need. I wonder... It must be tailored to fit both small and big maps. What about getting certain amount of resources (exact amount is debatable, it should be boost, not main source of income) per planet (maybe various types planets will affect how many resources the Vasari player will get from Stripping it?), destruction of all structures nearby, lost of all upgraded planetary slots, no income gained from mines (long term loss for short term gain) and making it unable to be colonized by Vasari Loyalist only? That way the other races can still find use for the planet and it won't be too easy choice to be made. It's very similar to your idea, but with more emphasis on how it'd affect the Vasari Loyalists.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting ARESIV, reply 13

Quoting Doshka19, reply 12What if Wail had the same effect of that mass disorient thing that advent SBs have? just on the scale of the whole gravity well. At the very least it would be funny to watch a whole fleet start tilting in random directions

 

That would certainly be funny, however I see only a very limited use for that in multiplayer. Unless you cast them adrift for a very long time.
End of ARESIV's quote

 

Perhaps with duration based off of the population number sacrificed, could make desert planets into a stronghold of sorts for the advent.